scolopax Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 AVB- Agree with all your posts and no, i am not a banker- one generation out of the pits in South Yorkshire and left school at 16 to work on a farm then on a YTS scheme. I heard the same thing in those years as I hear now with comments about the lost generation, poor prospects and limited movement socially. It is a load of rubbish. Overall as a country (and I accept there are some cases where this has not happened) we have never had it so good. I personally prospered under Maggie through the opportunities created by the buoyant economy and by my own hard work. When the Tories came in in 1979 we were a bigger basket case than Greece is now, the IMF would not lenders any more money and in typical Labour fashion the coffers were empty. One of the main reasons for privatising many of the industries is because we could no longer afford the subsidies. My wife trained as an accountant and used to audit the coal board. The subsidies were eye watering. Should we have privatised everything, probably not. Certainly not rail or the utilities but everything else yes. We have most certainly priced ourselves out of the marketplace in a number of areas including engineering and steelmaking. The fact is you can pay someone pennies in the Far East to produce as good quality steel as you have to pay several thousand pounds a year for here. Should we subsidise it? At what point do we say enough is enough. Tax is eminently fair as AVB has already illustrated and as for the comment about paying VAT twice I think you should read up on this matter. The VAT is ultimately paid by the end user so is only paid once however it is passed from company to company so if someone makes some car parts and sells it to a car parts distributor they can reclaim the VAT the VAT is then passed on to you so it is an end user tax. I think Maggie did a great job for this country and should be shown due respect because if she haven't stood her ground, we really would be in the mire. People need to understand that someone has already illustrated on here that the only form of government money is personal and corporate taxation. The pot is only finite and therefore needs to be allocated accordingly. One of the great mis quotes from the Maggie years is "there is no such thing as society". This is taken completely out of context from an interview for a woman's magazine. I suggest you Google it and you will understand that what she says is society is us. It is uncles and aunts and brothers and sisters so when people say society will look after me, what actually mean is I will happily sponge off my friends and relations. I am old enough and wise enough to believe that there are a number of areas in the country where there are no jobs and I would be the first to support the people in this area as there but for the grace of God go I, but there are also a large percentage of people that will not work. Sorry for the tome of war and peace, cup of tea time. Could not agree more She may not have got everything right but Maggie shook this country up and sorted it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) maybe it was a bit harsh lol funny how if you speak out and say that saint maggie could be partly to blame (said after others had pointed the finger at other politicians) people get so offended lol lets just be clear im not a supporter or hater of either party but i guess im against greed selfishness stupidity and in favour of fairness honesty to all citizens rich or poor. i try so hard to be nice Oh what short memories people have of the labour government and state of the Country before Maggie in fairness im sure it wasnt good but its to far back for me to really have any awareness off but i do remember thinking it would be interesting having a woman prime minister. Edited March 21, 2012 by storme37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The anti Maggie brigade never cease to amaze me and I have to wonder how they get on walking blindfolded through life. Whilst I don't like the losses my family are having to endure I accept it's the price we have to pay for the mess Labour have left us in. Again Uncontrolled immigration, limitless borrowing and a welfare state which is sucking the very life out of our economy all has a consequence but, no, according to most die hard Labour supporters it's all Maggie's fault and Cameron is no better. Happy when the government's splashing the cash, not so happy when they ask us to repay it. I don't agree with everything they do and I worry about where this is all heading but one thing's for sure; if Labour were still in charge we'd be sinking a hell of a lot quicker! On a separate note, when that muppet Miliband was urging the Tories to stand up if they benefited from the budget, did he come across as a complete twerp or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 i wish i hadnt mentioned maggie lol and yes labour did a fine job screwing up lets all just hope for better things in the future maybe 2012 will be the year it all turns round. chin up chaps britains still great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 You read the Daily Mail too much. Let's see what bonus really means. Let's assume my market aligned compensation is 100. Of that 100, 50 is fixed and the rest is variable. If I (meet my objectives) and the company do well then the variable would be paid. So total compensation 100. However if I don't then it would be zero therefore total compensation is 50. Is the variable amount of between zero and 50 a bonus? No it is the variable element of compensation. It's is NOT something extra to my pay to act as a way of saying thank you. It is part of my pay. AVB, as a banker, you're on thin ice talking about bonuses really ............ So people earning over £150,000 a year shouldn't pay more tax than lets say a nurse earning £20,000 or a headteacher earning £50,000. I don't feel it's me that needs to get real It should be proportionate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggins. Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I don't agree with everything they do and I worry about where this is all heading but one thing's for sure; if Labour were still in charge we'd be sinking a hell of a lot quicker! Think of Greece and you will know where we are heading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 it is interesting to hear a bankers point of view in fairness he may have some valid points we have not heard or thought of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 bbc 1 at 10 oclock debate on the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Sorry but he doesn't debunk it. He talks a lot and throws a lot of history in there that is irrelevant. Also I wouldn't say he is a professional economist. He is an academic. He doesn't have to put his theories into practise. There are hundreds of people at NASA who haven't been to Space, that doesn't mean they don't know how it all works. The chap is a Professor of Economics, that's good enough for me, and certainly better than an over-simplified parable designed, I suspect, to convince the Sun-reading easily-led. The parable overlooks many salient facts, not least of which is the whole idea of the bar bill going down. In reality ( if we ignore the fact that the richest 10th man would probably be avoiding his share of the bill ) a tax cut would be forcing the 10th man to pay less and putting some of the cost onto the middle "numbers" (read middle classes). I suggest a more likely scenario would be inflation and national debt reducing the size of the glasses for everyone, but the higher "numbers" able to buy a sneaky extra drink at the end of the evening. AVB, don't take these posts as communism, I'm really not a pinko, I just think some balance is needed with all the "We Love Maggie" "Nail Some Sense Into Them" posts. I voted Tory, and probably will again, but I don't have to worship them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Ah again the focus is making the hard working wealthy risk takers and business makers pay for it all. The irony is that in any private sector business there is very little waste. However, you look at any aspect of government or the public sector and it's a full on comical spunk fest. My own view is "it's not what you earn, it's what you don't spend" and yet, as a country we are still just hosing money away all over the shop. If the government could be more business like in its operation and a bit more careful with my tax money, well I reckon I wouldn't need to pay so much tax in the next budget... Bob on Mungler. IMO government should be apolitical........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Bob on Mungler. IMO government should be apolitical........... We're all shareholders in the country, and we all get a say on the "Management". Unfortunately when an organisation gets too big it fails, maybe we should chop government into smaller pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) i think if we stop trying to police the world we could save a lot and that would speed up recovery britain needs to look to solving its own issues 1st Edited March 21, 2012 by storme37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Storme37, agree with a lot of what you say in many ways. Most of teh "old school" MPs of both parties had real jobs before they went into politics. The current crop of MPs in all parties have never had a full-time job so have little or no understanding of most working people. Whilst it is convenient to bash the bankers and some of them do need bashing for the decisions they have made and their lack of judgement, let's be clear that the government of the day were quite happy to let the banks carry on as they were because they were raking in a huge amount of tax from the banking sector. Secondly, a large percentage of the population spent like there was no tomorrow, knowing full well that they did not have the resources to pay the debt back and were praying that house prices would continue to grow. As a one O-level man, even I know that the economy is cyclical and whilst overall house prices will increase they will plateau every so often. Secondly the value is only relative if you wish to sell it and downsize. So I think the blame should be allocated one third bankers, one third the government of the day, and one third the section of the population that spent like idiots. My brother looked after a number of stores for a national retail chain. One store in the north-east employed a lady who spoke to him about her debt issues. She and her husband had a joint income of £36,000 which for the area was good. Above and beyond her mortgage, she and her husband had £82,000 of unsecured debt. When asked what she had spent it on thinking it may have been an extension to improve the value of the house or perhaps help an elderly relative, she told him it was on cars and holidays none of which are now around to be enjoyed. Case closed for the prosecution. And another thing....... please don't think I am unsympathetic, before we were married and had I not sent my credit card back myself, the bank would have asked for it back. I owed £2500 and had an income of £17,000 so as a ratio it was very small. The banks kept everything sensibly at a low level compared to my income under I have the sense to send it back. It's the same with mortgages, in Ireland before the crash people were being lent 5,6 even 10 times their annual salary..... Madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 lord sugar for chancellor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 We're all shareholders in the country, and we all get a say on the "Management". Unfortunately when an organisation gets too big it fails, maybe we should chop government into smaller pieces. Isnt that what devolution is all about? It would never work because of peoples "them and us" agenda People up North would want to know why the South is gettin more money them etc etc etc There is no answer that will suit everybody, The Labour supporter will blame Thatcher, the Tory supporter will blame Blair/Brown (with good reason imho) :yp: Storme37, how old are you?, did you live through the 3 day week/striking over whatever didnt please the unions on that particular day? Remember Red Ken, almost single handedly shut British Leyland down. "your a fitter, why did you change that bulb? thats a sparkies job, everybody out" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 lord sugar for chancellor Nick Clegg - You're Fired..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Well at least the topic has moved from hitting the doers in the pocket as a solution to the economic crisis to some consideration of the country operating better. Yep, wars abroad, dole cheats, over paid local authority chief execs, public sector expenses, military procurement, spending in the NHS, the BBC.... all low hanging fruit.... But hey screw that, the bloke who works his nuts off, runs a business employing 20 people and who has borrowed and risked the lot to make it work and to get on and who now wants to see a return, let's just tax the **** out of him - That seems fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 hi keg you have many valid points and im sorry if i came across as a banker basher honestly im not nor am i anti tory and i agree we all loved to spend it lol i only really had a few points ie all partys have had a part to play in this mess and banking recklessness hasn't helped as i think we all agree. the only reason i pointed maggie out was others had pointed to other parties as possible people to blame i just knocked it back 20 years as i believe this all goes way back. i have throughout this post tried to be fair and im not blaming any one party. i do however think the man in the street has been overlooked time and time again and at budget time is seen by all partys as just away to raise cash to cover up mistakes and there is a lack of accountability to the tax payer. thank you for taking the time to write a very interesting post and your very right about the mortgage lending lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) But hey screw that, the bloke who works his nuts off, runs a business employing 20 people and who has borrowed and risked the lot to make it work and to get on and who now wants to see a return, let's just tax the **** out of him - That seems fair no lol small business is the only thing that can save this country people must be encouraged to leave the dole and work for themselves if theres no jobs create 1 tax breaks and investment for the man above is whats needed. im no economist or politician lol i dont have the answers lol Edited March 21, 2012 by storme37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Small business needs to be encouraged to prosper but without the populice having the money in their pocket to spend they will wither and die. Edited March 21, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPUK Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I can remember Red Ken - TV interviewed him in his kitchen and I can still remember the bottle of brown sauce and tomato sauce on kitchen table along with salt and pepper - It certainly put him in his place in society. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) 45% top rate higher tax on buying mansions well they had a break on top rate tax £9205 personal tax good move cut in corporation tax i imagine this helps business child benefit no losses over 50k sounds fair pensioners allowance frozen not good they seem to have taken the kicking but raises lots bringing troops home saves alot booze and fags up alot not to bothered about that luxury's i would rather see more tax on that and less on fuel fuel no cuts pity iv heard worse Edited March 21, 2012 by storme37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) they are saying the economy still looks bleak not much has changed anti tax avoidance rules is going to make a few squirm lol Edited March 21, 2012 by storme37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 How much did booze go up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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