JonathanL Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I know of a chap who's son is applying for his FAC. The police have given him a form to send to the childs school authorising them to contact the school to ask questions. Personally, I find this a very worrying development. It is none of the school's business. It is no one elses business and is an entirely private matter. Additionally, it is also a massive potential security problem. Potentially, all the teachers at the school may now know that there will be, or already are, firearms at a persons house. The police apparently insisted that the form was completed and would not consider the application otherwise. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I know of a chap who's son is applying for his FAC. The police have given him a form to send to the childs school authorising them to contact the school to ask questions. Personally, I find this a very worrying development. It is none of the school's business. It is no one elses business and is an entirely private matter. Additionally, it is also a massive potential security problem. Potentially, all the teachers at the school may now know that there will be, or already are, firearms at a persons house. The police apparently insisted that the form was completed and would not consider the application otherwise. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? J. To be honest I don't think its a bad thing at all, my thoughts are that a school is an excellent reference pool to use! Re the security, I would hope that the school would be pretty delicate about the application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I've never heard it being done but to be honest with whats gone on recently it doesn't suprise me, as with everything in the police it's just a big a*se covering exercise. I would assume it would only be sent to the headteacher so should in theory should carry about the same security risk as letting your doctor / references know that you are applying for SGC/FAC. The school should know the child back to front so are good people to ask. Just hope the school isn't part of the bamby anti shooting brigade Edited March 26, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner4hire Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Since when does the Firearms application process include contacting people other than nominated referees and GP's? Surely the police cant change the procedure because they feel like it? I would put this to BASC for their advice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 To be honest I don't think its a bad thing at all, my thoughts are that a school is an excellent reference pool to use! Re the security, I would hope that the school would be pretty delicate about the application. It's nothing to do with the school though. It's nothing to do with anyone else. It's a matter of privacy and no one else should have to be consulted or made aware of what people do privately if the person concerned doen't want them to be. I would hope the school would be discrete about it too but that's not really the point. There is no reason why they need to know about any of it. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I've never heard it being done but to be honest with whats gone on recently it doesn't suprise me, as with everything in the police it's just a big a*se covering exercise. I would assume it would only be sent to the headteacher so should in theory should carry about the same security risk as letting your doctor / references know that you are applying for SGC/FAC. Just hope the school isn't part of the bamby anti shooting brigade In theory that shouldn't matter, I imagine they are being asked to provide info on the applicants suitability, and with children spending as much, or more time at school than at home, and almost certainly more than the nominated references, I don't think its a bad idea. If the school were to give a reaction, akin of anti shooting, I'd like to think that that personal comment is ignored, it has nothing to do with the suitability of the candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Refer to shooting organisation. The process is the process - two referees, end of! They cannot just change at will. Sounds like over active firearms manager thinking they are God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deny essex Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I think its wrong a general letter reference from school voluntarily included with the application maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter.123 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 It's always been the process. I had it done when I was 15 and the school was contacted to see stability and state of mind that's it! It is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I'd be getting in touch with my shooting org'and seeking advice,if nothing more,then to make them aware of the situation. Edited March 26, 2012 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefulham Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 My Son has his SGC at 15 in Beds and no-one apart from us and his referee were contacted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 It's always been the process. I had it done when I was 15 and the school was contacted to see stability and state of mind that's it! It is a good thing. I got an FAC at 15 and was shooting unaccompanied thereafter. Nobody outside referees was contacted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter.123 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Maybe it's just some forces and made up rules again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradders Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 When my daughter applied for her 1st SGC about 7 years ago (she was 15) the police contacated the school for references. The school had no problems with providing a charater reference. The usual questions, is she trustworthy, has she any disiplinary issues, does she attend and not play truant etc. The headmistress at the time told my daughter the police had been in touch. My view is that if you can't behave at school or have behavoural or disiplinary issues then you are not fit/mature enough to hold an SGC. If you do not behave responsibly at school then you are not responsible enough to have an SGC. As long as the school can evidence their responses then I have no issues, if they say they do not feel that the child is not responsible enough then they should provide evidence to back that claim up. Thats my view anyway..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillaroo Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) This is nothing new. My son's headmaster was contacted (and we were happy for this to happen) 5 years ago when he first applied for SGC at 9 years old. He also had the interview from police and got his licence no problem. Don't see what the fuss is about unless there's something to hide? Edited March 26, 2012 by Gillaroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 The issue is that the Police, again, have altered statutory licensing Process without being held to account. The process is laid down in law and must be followed. Personally, I think it's a good idea but needs to have the process established and enshrined in law for relative clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) In theory that shouldn't matter, I imagine they are being asked to provide info on the applicants suitability, and with children spending as much, or more time at school than at home, and almost certainly more than the nominated references, I don't think its a bad idea. If the school were to give a reaction, akin of anti shooting, I'd like to think that that personal comment is ignored, it has nothing to do with the suitability of the candidate. It would depend on how the personal opinion was put across though. If the teacher/head master felt that it was innaprorpiate for people of school age to shoot they could easily put something along the lines of "I do not feel he is mature enough to own a firearm" which could easily be seen as an opinion on someones character rather than shooting in general. The only people who should determine if someone is eligible for an FAC should be people with the know-how. Edited March 26, 2012 by Bombadil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholiath Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I would contact my shooting org as has already been said 2 referees and GP is ALL that is required! What's next? contacting your employer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) It would depend on how the personal opinion was put across though. If the teacher/head master felt that it was innaprorpiate for people of school age to shoot they could easily put something along the lines of "I do not feel he is mature enough to own a firearm" which could easily be seen as an opinion on someones character rather than shooting in general. The only people who should determine if someone is eligible for an FAC should be people with the know-how. Oh I agree, but, any sponsor or your Dr could do the same, saying that someone isn't suitable just to suit your general opinion of shooting is lying. Edited March 26, 2012 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I know of a chap who's son is applying for his FAC. The police have given him a form to send to the childs school authorising them to contact the school to ask questions. Personally, I find this a very worrying development. It is none of the school's business. It is no one elses business and is an entirely private matter. Additionally, it is also a massive potential security problem. Potentially, all the teachers at the school may now know that there will be, or already are, firearms at a persons house. The police apparently insisted that the form was completed and would not consider the application otherwise. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? J. I don't see this as an issue... many many years ago when I applied to join the Navy (before I saw the error of my ways and joined the Army) the first thing they did was wrote to school for a character reference... After all, they are best placed to offer an unbiased opinion.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillaroo Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 So how many of you demanding BASC intervention have had your son/daughter apply for a ticket at an early age? If you are told it would be a good idea to get a school reference as it will be seen in a good light down at HQ then why on earth wouldn't you agree? I've been helped out plenty of times by the local firearms dept and I'm on good terms with them. Asking if it's ok to contact the school is hardly police brutality and at least in our case we could give his head a prior warning before getting a call from the firearms dept about one of his pupils. These people see our kids far more often than our GPs and probably more than the other 2 referees who we choose anyway. If you are a complete little **** at school in terms of behaviour then you shouldn't have a licence - end of. Seems when there is already enough pressure against young responsible people having access to guns that some people on here still want to poke a stick in the hornets' nest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 The Police should not be able to change the process at whim. One presumes that the school is a highly rated educational establishment and that they are competent to assess the suitability of a student to possess a licence. Would an inner city school have any teachers competent to understand countryside pursuits? Let us not forget that it was a teacher that stigmatised a pupil for his father being a gamekeeper. IMHO schools are an engine for anti-fieldports propaganda. The entire infant and junior syllabus is about cuddly furry animals and the nasty farmers. Schools run trips to petting farms and teach about Easter Bunnies and Chicken Licken. Until schools start teaching kids that meat comes from animals and not from Tesco, they are the last place to consult on firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 let them get away with this, where will it end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefulham Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I don't see this as an issue... many many years ago when I applied to join the Navy (before I saw the error of my ways and joined the Army) the first thing they did was wrote to school for a character reference... After all, they are best placed to offer an unbiased opinion.. It is the biased opinion that I think concerns most people I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Marty Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Dont think it would apply over here cause correct me if iam wrong you cant get a FAC over here untill your 17,Not sure why anybody knows tell me please :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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