poontang Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 If I was you I'd withdraw the application as suggested. If you don't, and it's refused you'll have to put down that down on any other application. If you withdraw it now you can start the process again with a clean slate so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 No I don't agree. This needs to run the distance otherwise it's just an FEO being Hitler yet again. I think there is a fair case to be made that this is an honest mistake and should be treated accordingly. Equally, I think the BASC angle is key here - their advice will be a godsend. Also, the idea of someone convicted of assault with a gun doesn't scare me because the offence of assult is so ridiculously open-ended that it can mean too many things. It's not gbh - if I prod someone, that's legally assault. Happens all the time - sometimes in jest, sometimes accidentally, etc etc. The difference is that it made it to court! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 No I don't agree. This needs to run the distance otherwise it's just an FEO being Hitler yet again. I think there is a fair case to be made that this is an honest mistake and should be treated accordingly. Equally, I think the BASC angle is key here - their advice will be a godsend. It's nothing to do with the FEO 'playing Hitler'. If anything I think you'll find he's trying to do evo a favour by giving him that advice. I suspect BASC will say the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted April 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 No I don't agree. This needs to run the distance otherwise it's just an FEO being Hitler yet again. I think there is a fair case to be made that this is an honest mistake and should be treated accordingly. Equally, I think the BASC angle is key here - their advice will be a godsend. Also, the idea of someone convicted of assault with a gun doesn't scare me because the offence of assult is so ridiculously open-ended that it can mean too many things. It's not gbh - if I prod someone, that's legally assault. Happens all the time - sometimes in jest, sometimes accidentally, etc etc. The difference is that it made it to court! thanks for that bud,,,i will not be removing my application as it was an honest mistake and i did not beat anyone up to a pulp as people take the word ASSAULT to mean,,sounds stupid but i actually did the guy a favour and stopped him getting beaten to a pulp but the police decided to take it to court ans i was conditionally discharged to stay away from each other for a period of 12 months,,we actually became friends after this and still speak to each other today,,,does this mean i shouldn,t hold an SGC ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 i didn,t assault anyone i broke up a fight by grabbing this guy after the court case he even paid for the costs and was all appologies to myself and the wife You have a conviction for the assault - not sure how you can say you didn't do it. Did you plead guilty? In which case you admitted that you did it. Did you plead not guilty and you were found guilty by the Magistrates? In which case - you have committed the assault. With the best will in the world - you are asked for any convictions whatsoever. How could you forget a conviction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted April 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 You have a conviction for the assault - not sure how you can say you didn't do it. Did you plead guilty? In which case you admitted that you did it. Did you plead not guilty and you were found guilty by the Magistrates? In which case - you have committed the assault. With the best will in the world - you are asked for any convictions whatsoever. How could you forget a conviction? i was not convicted of assault,,i was sorry " we " were conditionally discharged from court the original charge was common assault ,it really was so petty you would not believe it ,,but it is my fault,,i did not remember it and so made the honest mistake of not putting it down on my app,,,i cant be any more honest,,but i,ll leave it now and just wait till i get the letter thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 A conditional discharge is a conviction. So what charge was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted April 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 A conditional discharge is a conviction. So what charge was it? read the previous posts i,m not repeating myself again,,all i will say is i did not assault anyone and this was proven,but because we lived so close we were conditionally discharged ,,,reminds me of a thing my father said and i quote "" IF YOU DO ANYTHING GOOD SON IT WILL BE WRITTEN IN SAND TO BE WASHED AWAY BY THE TIDE"" but then he said "" IF YOU EVER DO ANYTHING WRONG IT WILL BE WRITTEN IN STONE"" i rest my case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 You really need to stick to the one version. missing a conviction of common assault that happened in 1997 Now are you saying you weren't convicted after all? :hmm: As for your speeding offence. The Police National Computer stores convictions by name, not by vehicle. also a driving ticket(speeding) not mine ex missus was driving my van to pick up stock for the salon and she was convicted just that the van was in my name If your wife was driving and was convicted, it would not be brought up against you by the FEO. Not sure what you mean by "just that the van was in my name". Where you convicted of anything in respect of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) i have never had a ticket in any vehicle ,i have never been done for speeding either,my wife was insured to drive my van,and whilst doing so she was caught speeding on camera,,so i recieved a summons and she filled it out because it was her that was driving not me,,certainly got a shock when that was mentioned ,,he said he will check my licence,,not a prob Edited April 6, 2012 by evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 with reguards missing a conviction,,i was just repeating what the fao said sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 This just emphasises a point I made on another thread. The Police know all of our historys if we have one so why do we need to declare to them what they know already. To my mind its a discouragement measure rather than an honesty test and to caution or prosecute someone is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Totally over the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mag8830 Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Sorry to hear that I to think you should re apply and eat some humble pie. I was a complet **** years ago and did what the feo said leave it 10 years and re appy. You name it I put it down off record and on . Name on birth certificate is different to the one I use now very hard to get a passport but told feo everything and bingo sgc was in my hand in two weeks . Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy1403 Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 As i see this this you have 2 choices. 1:withdraw your application wait a while and re-apply including the coviction. 2:go ahead with the application,if they turn it down hope BASC will fight your case at an appeal.bear in mind that if you loose the appeal you will never be able to go shooting again,not even at the local clay ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 A conditional discharge is not a conviction unless the conditions set by the court are broken in the given time period, if this happens the person will be brought back to court and sentenced. However to issue one you have to accept that you are guilty of the offence and the court have to believe you are guilty. Whether it's a honest mistake or not the offence has still be comitted and the 'honest mistake' will just be mitigation to the offence. I would agree that common sense should be used in cases like this but it sounds as if your FEO has made his mind up. Personally I would withdraw and resubmit but you need to bottom out what real action the police are taking against you before you make that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 You are not obliged to list any cautions you received but the feo may ask.about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzab Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Blooming hec that must be gutting mate. Applying for mine in next couple of weeks. Blooming terrified ill mess it up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 A conditional discharge is not a conviction unless the conditions set by the court are broken in the given time period You have to be found guilty of the offence before a conditional discharge can be imposed. A conditional discharge is the sentence following a conviction. An offence, which must be declared, has been committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Just so that some of you are clear in your minds, when giving advice and making bold statements, form 101 states: Note to Part A - Question 14 You are not entitled to withhold information about any offence. This includes motoring offences, convictions in places outside Great Britain, and (by virtue of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975) convictions which are spent under the 1974 Act. Both a conditional discharge and an absolute discharge count as convictions for this purpose. Note the wording. Both conditional discharges and absolute discharges count as convictions when filling in fac applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 The FEO's actions may seem steep but surely part of their job is to weed out undesirable applicants? 15 years is a long time but forgetting about a formal brush with the law and missing it off a shotgun application seems a little far fetched to me. It's about being squeaky clean and honest. By signing on the dotted line you're agreeing to the terms and conditions of the application and missing convictions doesn't go down well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 The FEO's actions may seem steep but surely part of their job is to weed out undesirable applicants? 15 years is a long time but forgetting about a formal brush with the law and missing it off a shotgun application seems a little far fetched to me. It's about being squeaky clean and honest. By signing on the dotted line you're agreeing to the terms and conditions of the application and missing convictions doesn't go down well. A very reasonable view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 had sgc interview after waiting nearly 3 months,,i have been formally cautioned for trying to obtain an sgc and missing a conviction of common assault that happened in 1997,,(15 years ago) and also a driving ticket(speeding) not mine ex missus was driving my van to pick up stock for the salon and she was convicted just that the van was in my name,,totally gutted,,got to wait for the letter now to see if i am gonna be charged,,,honestly did not remember conviction from 15yrs ago,,,,i,m totally devastated by this as i am hard workingand honest and thought i put everything down(WHAT A DI*****D) now i,m worried i wont get sgc and also i,m gonna get charged,,just sent a letter to BASC asking for help,,,,,,,,,,,,,totally gutted :stupid: oh he also said he thinks it best that i remove my application so i told him no i wont as this was a genuine mistake on my behalf,, I fail to see why they are bringing up the speeding ticket thing. If it's your wife's ticket then it has nothing to do with you. You do not get a ticket for speeding based on the fact that you own the vehicle - it's the driver who commited the offence, not the owner. The assult offence should have been delcared but if you didn't remeber it then you have not committed the offence of making a false statement to obtain an SGC. The declaration at the end of the form says something like 'The information given on this form is true to the best of my knowledge and belief'. It would appear then that they would have to prove that you knowingly withheld the information to get a successful conviction. It's a mattr of whether a jury believed that you genuinely forgot, I think. A successful prosecution is by no means guaranteed which is probably why he asked you to withdraw the application. On the other hand, you could agree to withdraw it and immediately put in another application and disclose the conviction. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 I'd ring BASC, I think it'll be better than the letter. See what they say, but if they will not grant you a certificate then you might be better withdrawing the application as your FEO suggested. You lose the fee but if they refuse it then although they return the fee it may make it much harder (or impossible) to get one in the future. The advise is usually to withdraw the application and try again in a few years, putting more time between the conviction and the application. You don't. The issue of fees is totally misunderstood. The fee is not for the application, it is for the grant of the certificate. It does not become payable until such time as the police actually grant the certificate. Demanding it up front is unlawful and, to my mind, is bordering on the offence of demand money with menaces (blackmail) which is an offence contained in the Theft Act. It's almost certainly an offence of misconduct in public office too. Parliament has not given the police the power to demand any money until the certificate is granted and tht is when they should send you the bill. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 A conditional discharge is a conviction. So what charge was it? It's a sentence. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 A conditional discharge is not a conviction unless the conditions set by the court are broken in the given time period, if this happens the person will be brought back to court and sentenced. However to issue one you have to accept that you are guilty of the offence and the court have to believe you are guilty. Whether it's a honest mistake or not the offence has still be comitted and the 'honest mistake' will just be mitigation to the offence. I would agree that common sense should be used in cases like this but it sounds as if your FEO has made his mind up. Personally I would withdraw and resubmit but you need to bottom out what real action the police are taking against you before you make that decision. No a discharge (conditional or otherwise) is a sentence imposed after conviction. I think you are thinking of 'Binding Over' which you get for breach of the peace which is not a criminal offence (I don't think). J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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