Livefast123 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) I'm currently pondering over my variation but Avon and Somerset have said that if I own 6 guns then they like an alarm to be fitted. My house is in a low crime/burglary area, has deadlock/lever locks on all external doors, window locks on all ground floor windows and as my Mrs is a lady of leisure our house is occupied most of the time. I really can't see why I would need an alarm and would prefer to put a deadlock on an internal door than spend money on an useless alarm that most people would ignore. Even a monitered one would take well over 10 - 15 mins to get someone to the property. My plan is to write to the FD stating the above and seeing what they say. Has anyone else had this issue? The other option is to fit one of these in the gun cabinet location http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-WIRELESS-MOTION-SENSOR-ALARM-PIR-SECURITY-KEYPAD-HOME-GARAGE-SHED-CARAVAN-/270919776183?pt=UK_Burglar_Alarms&hash=item3f1413b7b7 Edited May 3, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 This is not a legal requirement, but a conditon that's been asked for. If you are a member of BASC, contact them, and they will put you on the right track. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickmep Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 sussex policy is alarmed cabinet over 9 guns, monitored alarm on propery after 12. my feo was happy with an alarm similar to your link on each cabinet. to be honest it was easier fitting a couple of those alarms than argueing the point with the feo, some will say different and that you shouldn't need to do it as there is no legal requirement but for the price of the alarms its not worth rocking the boat with the feo. monitored house alarm on the other hand is gonna be expensive and keep costing you every month, and if your in a low crime area like we are, its an expense that you dont really need, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I wouldn't mind if it was like the one in the link but the person I spoke to seemed to think it was a full system..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 hmm 6 seems low to be honest. and those shed alarms are a waste of £10 IMO I would contact BASC for advice. But I would want to know what benefit the alarm would offer? To my mind an alarm like the one linked to on the cabinet is no real benefit as one good smack and its in pieces and wont sound very loud from outside the property, to get into a locked cabinet requires some tooling and that would be more than enough to overcome a simple alarm. After my shed was broken into i was given a terrible battery alarm (like a rape alarm with a door contact) wasnt worth the cardbaord box it came in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 TBH if they say get one like the link I will fit one to avoid rocking the boat, knowing full well that it will be next to useless for anything then scaring off the most casual of criminals. Any alarm system is old hat, the non monitered ones just get ignored as faulty and if you saw how long the monitered ones take to get a response then there is no point having one. Much better IMO to spend the money on deadlocks etc to stop them getting in there in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 The problem is, people don't want to challenge the police/feo, so as to not rock the boat. If the police are asking for something that it not legal, then they have no right to do so. I have challenged the police (with the full backing of BASC) and have had ridiculous conditions on my licence removed. But,if you feel that you don't want to rock the boat and create ripples,then that's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) I hear what you are saying Steve and if we don't challenge these rediculous conditions then they'll get worse. I'll see what they say when I contact them before considering my next course of action. I will make strong representations that I dont need an alarm and it will provide no benefit. I dont really want to bring in BASC yet as a) I'm not a member (yet) and I have a good relationship with my FEO who is a shooter so I'll also see what he says. Hopefully the desk pilot was mistaken in their information. Edited May 3, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Cambs say they want an alarm over 9 and 15+ it has to be monitored (ie tied into the police). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 thats right im with avon and somerset.you can have 5 guns, with out an alarm,if you want 6 guns then an alarm must be fitted to the house.flo told me that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Cambs say they want an alarm over 9 and 15+ it has to be monitored (ie tied into the police). Again, different amounts of firearms 'allowed' but still not legal. thats right im with avon and somerset.you can have 5 guns, with out an alarm,if you want 6 guns then an alarm must be fitted to the house.flo told me that . As above. You have been told what you must do. I had a good relationship with my FEO too (for over 12 years) but he's retired now. He did not agree with alarms being fitted, but said that he was 'told' to insist on one if a certain amount of firearms were required/kept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Looks like i need to join BASC then.... I have sent an email requesting written conformation of their policy then I guess I'll have to go from there. It's kind of the same as ammo allowance, why do 6 guns need an alarm when 2 don't....100 rounds are equally as dangerous as 1000 Edited May 3, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Looks like i need to join BASC then.... I have sent an email requesting written conformation of their policy then I guess I'll have to go from there. It's kind of the same as ammo allowance, why do 6 guns need an alarm when 2 don't....100 rounds are equally as dangerous as 1000 The problem is, varying police forces have their own 'policies' which they themselves have created. If they do send you a copy, then it will be 'their' policy and not actual law. Another thing is, if police forces start insisting on house alarms, or that they be linked to a police station,and other police forces follow suit, it could become law, and we'll all have to conform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 The problem is, varying police forces have their own 'policies' which they themselves have created. If they do send you a copy, then it will be 'their' policy and not actual law. I just want a hard copy of their policy so I can send to the relevant people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Another thing is, if police forces start insisting on house alarms, or that they be linked to a police station,and other police forces follow suit, it could become law, and we'll all have to conform. Monitored alarms are monitored by monitoring centres not the police a direct police link requires a grade 5 alarm and the call out fee for a false alarm is huge! I doubt RFD's are police linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Looks like i need to join BASC then.... I have sent an email requesting written conformation of their policy then I guess I'll have to go from there. It's kind of the same as ammo allowance, why do 6 guns need an alarm when 2 don't....100 rounds are equally as dangerous as 1000 That is always the best policy! Get everything in writing. The police cannot enforce a blanket policy - it is unlawful. Every single case must be judged on its merits. If you can be entrusted to possess firearms and ammunition without danger to the public safety or the peace then they are required by law to issue a certificate. It is not unreasonable that some circumstances may require an alarm, even a monitored one, but that is not to say that it will aways be the case simply on the basis of you owning a certain number of guns. Just because you possess seven guns does not, of its self, mean that you are a greater danger to the public safety or the peace than if you possessed six. Personally speaking, I have owned up to about 14 guns and I have never had an alarm. It is the overall security which is the important thing and an alarm is not the solution to any problm you are are ever likely to encounter. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) I would suggest you have a read of the Firearms Security Handbook 2005 produced by the Home Office, ACPO and the British Shooting Sports Council. I should add that this book is endorsed by BASC. Whilst not law this book clearly states what are thought,by the authors, to be clear and sensible guidlines and what are and would be viewed by individual Chief Constables and the courts as the correct guidelines and procedures for licensing mamagers to follow and enforce. In these guidelines you will see that mention is made with regard to alarms and number of guns held. As I said although not law it is not unreasonable for licensing managers to insist on a simple alarm system for 6+ guns. However, it would be unreasonable for a licensing manager to require a monitored alarm, as a blanket policy, for all who own in excess of 6 guns. I quote from the handbook......... 2.20 Where the individual circumstances are such that additional security might be required due to factors such as: repeat victimisation, high-crime location, building regularly unoccupied, a substantial number of firearms on the premises, 2.21 For these purposes, a substantial number of firearms should be considered with regard to the type of firearms, their potential danger if misused and their likely attractiveness to criminals. At the lower end the number might vary between six and ten, depending on the type of firearm concerned, whilst anything over ten would rarely be lower than level 2. It must be stressed, however, that it is not enough to base an assessment on the number of firearms alone all factors mentioned above and in paragraph 2.20 should be taken into account. Sound moderators, spare barrels, spare cylinders and component parts should not be considered as part of the total. Edited May 4, 2012 by CharlieT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Thanks Charlie, as I said low crime area, Mrs at home most of the time and new house with good quality locks all round. Most be .22LR and muzzle loading so not the most attractive to criminals?? I wouldn't consider it unreasonable if I had to have an alarmed cabinet for 6 + as that is cheap and easy to sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I wouldn't consider it unreasonable if I had to have an alarmed cabinet for 6 + as that is cheap and easy to sort. but totally pointless.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Thanks Charlie, as I said low crime area, Mrs at home most of the time and new house with good quality locks all round. Most be .22LR and muzzle loading so not the most attractive to criminals?? I wouldn't consider it unreasonable if I had to have an alarmed cabinet for 6 + as that is cheap and easy to sort. As far as I know, well as of last week, A&S when they talk of alarms only mean a cheap one fixed to the cabinet. It would be in truly exceptional circumstances that they required a monitored one. Devon and Cornwall now have a blanket policy of a cabinet alarm being fitted (over 6 guns). I bought and fitted a cheap B&Q one and they were more than happy. For the sake of £10 it was not worth argueing about. To be truthful, any alarm system in very rural areas is a complete waste of time and money and I know the police realise this, hence the sensible approach of accepting a cheap cabinet alarm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I hope that is the case and common sense prevails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I've got photographs of my ex mother in law plastered on my cabinets. No ****** would go near them. Better than any alarm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I've got photographs of my ex mother in law plastered on my cabinets. No ****** would go near them. Better than any alarm! :lol: :lol: :lol: :no: :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 without unlocking the cabinet to check, i have 8 in there that i can think of with no mention of an alarm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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