muckybear Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 hi all i am new to shooting shoguns (12mts) i have just got my own permission and think its time to get a gun dog what would help can you give i.e puppy/ part trained fully trained?? i have a bullmastif won,t fetch a ball never mind a pigeon (joke) any advice would be magical thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 its much more fun if you train it yourself,i had a lab 20 years ago and trianed it my self.she done very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 im biased but id say go for a lab,as the old saying goes labs are born half trained,spaniels die half trained. nttf has a vast amount of experience with regard to gundogs but as a first shooting dog imo you cant beat a lab.once youve shot with a dog you will wonder how you ever managed without,brings 110% more to the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 It depends what you want to do with the dog. Having owned both, its my experience; Springers will hunt and retrieve, but are not happy stuck in hides, or sitting on shooting lines 90% of the time. They can be hyper, require concentrated training and you need to keep on top of them. Labrador retrievers will retrieve and hunt, but are not happy with a full day of beating out brambles and thick cover, they are quite happy to sit in a hide, or a beating line 90% of the day. Far easier to train, as the retrieving function comes naturally to them, pushing them out to hunt can be hard work. I have only had my dogs from puppies. The best dog I ever had was a Springer, that I had professionally trained for me. She went away at 12 weeks of age for 6 weeks , then came home with some "homework" for 6 weeks, then went away for 6 weeks, home for 6 weeks, away for 6 weeks, home for 12 weeks, away for 6 weeks, then home for good. Money well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davhope Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 If this is your first dog, go down the part trained or fully trained route, it will help you to avoid all the mistakes that everyone makes with their first dog, Myself included. Dont rush things, everything that you foul up can be corrected as long as you get the right advice. Speak to several people who would be willing to help you, and pick one your comfortable with. And if you decide to get a black Lab Bitch myself or Pavman have covered just about every question you could ask so there is a weath of referance material. Best wishes Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muckybear Posted August 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 It depends what you want to do with the dog. Having owned both, its my experience; Springers will hunt and retrieve, but are not happy stuck in hides, or sitting on shooting lines 90% of the time. They can be hyper, require concentrated training and you need to keep on top of them. Labrador retrievers will retrieve and hunt, but are not happy with a full day of beating out brambles and thick cover, they are quite happy to sit in a hide, or a beating line 90% of the day. Far easier to train, as the retrieving function comes naturally to them, pushing them out to hunt can be hard work. I have only had my dogs from puppies. The best dog I ever had was a Springer, that I had professionally trained for me. She went away at 12 weeks of age for 6 weeks , then came home with some "homework" for 6 weeks, then went away for 6 weeks, home for 6 weeks, away for 6 weeks, home for 12 weeks, away for 6 weeks, then home for good. Money well spent. how much money did that cost if you dont mind me asking?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darebear Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 If this is your first dog, go down the part trained or fully trained route, it will help you to avoid all the mistakes that everyone makes with their first dog, Myself included. Best wishes Dave. i totally agree. if you haven't even owned a dog who would retrieve, you could probably do with something which knows what its doing, to help teach you. then as you become more experienced you wont make as many mistakes hopefully, when you come to train a youngster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirky640 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 get a springer spaniel they are top of the best an most loyal dog you will get labs tend to get to 7 or 8 and there back end cant carrie them anymore. if you do buy a lab make shure it is hip scored !!!! cheers kirky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 I agree with Cranners - if you have the money, go down the road of buying a trained dog, or send it away for training. But, this can be hellishly expensive. Also, as most people say - "Don't blame the dog, blame the owner". I bought a cocker that was 10 months old. Good working pedigree, but had been used as a house dog before I bought her - and I knew nothing about dog training at all. As a further disadvantage the wife definitely did not want a dog! As a dog for walking up the hedgerows, duck shooting and keeping vaguely close she was (is) all that I could have wished for. Excellent nose, good retriever, and loved water. Nearly(!) all that I ever wanted in a rough shooting dog. On a formal shoot she would have been a disaster. Very keen - too keen! Running in a speciality. It is for a reason that spaniels ears are called 'Spaniel handles'. A shooting friend of mine with no previous experience has two springers that are excellent. He trained them himself with the occasional assistance of a professional trainer with a rabbit pen etc. His first dog is used on a very, very formal pheasant shoot, and he has been congratulated by the keeper for having one of the best dogs he has seen. So, whatever dog you get, all I can say is to take your time with training - all dog owners will tell you that it is time that is well spent. Also, as Cranners said, think carefully on what you want the dog to do before you decide what breed to buy. For a steady companion get a Lab. Steadier and easier to train than a springer, and possibly more brains. A lab will look at a thick bramble patch and you can hear it thinking - "You want me to go in THERE - you must be nuts?". Whilst a springer would rather walk through a bramble patch than go round it. Cockers are great - but beware. Most books on cockers say that they "Are independent". This can mean that they know best. Beautiful personalities, but from time to time they have the canine equivalent of two fingers off to a 'T'. I know - I have that dog! So, if you are a mature, steady person with a penchant for a rocking chair, then get a lab. If you want a keen, eager "What can I do next", type, then go for a springer. And if you have the patience of a saint, then go for a cocker. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 And do not be scared to look outside of the box. There are working Clumber Spaniels, working Boykin Spaniel, Flat Coat Retrievers, and many other working breeds that are slower paced and easy going. The blood lines decide whether a dog is going to be a hard charging drive ahead dog or a easy going companion, so be sure to put your time into researching what you want. Go out to see as many dogs working as you can and then start to make your mind up. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muckybear Posted August 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 thanks for all your input for the type of shooting i do sat in a hide shooting pigeons rooks crows and the odd wabbit would i be right in getting a lab?? think a springer would be wasted in my situation next ?? do i get a puppy or older dog being as they are easier to train next ?? dog or bitch?? thanks for all your help gang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 how much money did that cost if you dont mind me asking?? That was some years ago, but I would estimate it cost me £2000+. There are plenty of gundog trainers about who will quote you a price for this service. You can also buy part trained and fully trained dogs, ring around and get some price ideas. The costs will undoubtably influence and help your decision. It sounds as though a labrador retriever would be right for the shooting you are doing and I would get a bitch. I am old fashioned enough to believe that bitches are more biddable and easier to train, but I know very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muckybear Posted August 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 how much money did that cost if you dont mind me asking?? That was some years ago, but I would estimate it cost me £2000+. There are plenty of gundog trainers about who will quote you a price for this service. You can also buy part trained and fully trained dogs, ring around and get some price ideas. The costs will undoubtably influence and help your decision. It sounds as though a labrador retriever would be right for the shooting you are doing and I would get a bitch. I am old fashioned enough to believe that bitches are more biddable and easier to train, but I know very little. thanks for the advice cranfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 LABRADOR. I paid £1250 for a fully trained machine and don't regret a £ of it but buy a bitch rather than a dog. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davhope Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Get a lab bitch, if this is your first dog, Loyal and obedient, and not off chasing every bitch in the neighbourhood as soon as you turn your head. Think about what you want the dog to do and also decide how soon you want to be shooting with her/him, if you get a pup you are going to spend the next 18 /24 months training your dog not shooting with them. If you want to go shooting in the coming season you will have to start thinking about trained/part trained, it will cost more but you need to weigh up cost v time. Hope this helps Dave P.S it cost me 500 to send my 12 months old to a trainer for 12 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 my choc lab bitch was trained by me,so any faults she has are my own doing not hers.she will sit in a hide all day no fuss and will do all i ask of her when we are having a wander.she wont do thick cover ( she leaves that to the spaniels ) but she will pick up all day long and not get bored between retrieves. she is better in the water than my mates four spaniels combined as she will swim not paddle about waiting for instructions. if you want a perfect dog then go for the sending away to be trained route if you want to have some fun and know when to shake your head and curse then train your dog yourself whichever you choose good shooting,having your dog with you improves a day out 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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