gixer1 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 As living creatures there's nothing wrong with rats. In fact they're quite cool little things. If they didn't do damage to so much stuff and spread disease I wouldn't feel the need to shoot them. Think the disease thing is not really as bad as people think - that was a bad legacy from the bubonic plague - which in all fairness was passed to the rat by humans I think? Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted June 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 thanks for the replies guys, i was out last night for a few hours and didn't shoot a thing, a few young rabbits out on the lawn, the hay is coming along nicely so couldn't see much anyway, saw a couple of fox, we've got some pheasant action going on in the long grass too. A kestrel, and a barn owl doing a few cicuits was a really nice sight to see. I'll remember my camera next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Having second thoughts about shooting is quite a natural thing . I have been going down that road for the last 5 years or so . I have friends who have shot with me for many ,many years who have gave up shooting altogether . I am now more happy to see the deer running around the farms and not shooting them . Fortunately the deer are only controlled on the farms as and when necessary . I dont enjoy shooting large bags of pigeons anymore but will shoot them because they do need to be controlled . I renewed my fac about a year ago and was seriously contemplating not renewing it and to give up shooting deer and rabbits for good . When this fac comes up for renewal I will definitely give up all shooting and not bother to renew . I will keep a couple of shot guns for clay shooting only . Its a very personal thing and will take a lot of soul searching . I do think that I have made up my mind to give up shooting when my ticket has expired and who knows ,maybe earlier . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 You might be a Gayer Graham I understand your predicament completely chap. I often get a bit sensitive about killing. Its the part of the sport that I derive no joy from. If its a nice clean kill I am satisfied but that is as far as it goes. I perk up a bit when the quarry it's oven ready and I do feel joy when we eat it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted June 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 You might be a Gayer Graham only in your wettest dreams fella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 only in your wettest dreams fella After all that talk of you and your chopper in the park.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddogfox Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) I feel no guilt's long as I made the kill as quick and painless as I can. I have been hunting and shooting most of my life 36 years and I still love it. It not so much the kill but the hunt and it always have been for me. I could shoot a deer out of a truck window but I do not. I will drive passed and then stalk back and try and get the deer then. If it spots me and runs away so be it. It is always there another day. If I have to kill vermin I will, but if it can be eaten then I will make sure that it is used. I have tried different types of shooting air rifle, centre fire rifles,shotgun and bow. I have had working dogs all my life. Do I feel sad when I kill something.Yes I do but I love this game and it is what I am and what I do. Olddogfox Edited June 3, 2012 by olddogfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Do I feel sad when I kill something.Yes I do but I love this game and it is what I am and what I do. Olddogfox Thats it in a nutshell. I love hunting but don't like dishing out the death bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicehorn Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yes the conscience bit - that is why I have a self imposed season for shooting fox. Been down the road of shooting a milky vixen then been unable to find the earth. Now I start on foxes late June (to coincide with pheasants going to wood on commercial shoots)and finish mid October. Unfortunately for foxes they have an extremely bad press - I know, killing chicken - usually the fault of the owner for not making there pens secure or not locking up at night. Have watched foxes in a field during lambing with night vison - watched a fox near a ewe, the ewe moves away from the lamb (stillborn) and the fox moves in and carries it off, any lamper spotting this fox would say it had just killed it. Foxes eat their own weight a month in rats and voles - thats a service it provides the farmer for free. Foxes dont kill for the sake of it (unlike mink) they kill because it is a time of plenty - left to their own devices they would return and collect all the corpses and bury them (usually leaving a leg sticking out of the ground so they can find it again) I will only go after fox at other times if I get asked like I did a couple of weeks ago - half grown cubs making a nuisance of themselves around a large duck pond. Yes I shoot 80+ foxes in 'my season' and some will be big cubs but I know I wont get all of them unlike shooting a dog and milky vixen in March which would guarantee the death of dependant cubs. To me a walk along the hedgerows and woods with a pair of binoculars will give me a better understanding of nature than walking with a gun ready to shoot the first thing I see with a leg in each corner. I will say I have no guilt in shooting magpies - elation actually!! Shootingcharley off this forum shares my opinion and he also has this self imposed season thing. I'll bet even money that in August this year someone on one of the forums will start a thread 'Anyone noticing a lack of foxes around?' Then waffle on about the lack of foxes about. For Christ's sake they don't breed like rats and have 10 litters a year. End of rant from an old *** ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 i've also noticed recently that a lot of people seem to think a fox calibre is an essential addition to the gun cab, when i used to help out in a friends gunshop it was all i heard some days, some bloke foaming at the gash cos he'd bagged a few fox the previous night, or a couple od roe with his shotty. i've got a few perms with fox present, and apart from the odd game bird carcass, most of the remains are rabbit so in essence they're doing me a favour with pest control. Not one of my perms has given me express orders to kill fox, i've cleared up a few mangy ones and that's about it. i'm not anti fox shooting by the way, i just don't see the point in killing them for the hell of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Yes the conscience bit - that is why I have a self imposed season for shooting fox. Been down the road of shooting a milky vixen then been unable to find the earth. Now I start on foxes late June (to coincide with pheasants going to wood on commercial shoots)and finish mid October. Unfortunately for foxes they have an extremely bad press - I know, killing chicken - usually the fault of the owner for not making there pens secure or not locking up at night. Have watched foxes in a field during lambing with night vison - watched a fox near a ewe, the ewe moves away from the lamb (stillborn) and the fox moves in and carries it off, any lamper spotting this fox would say it had just killed it. Foxes eat their own weight a month in rats and voles - thats a service it provides the farmer for free. Foxes dont kill for the sake of it (unlike mink) they kill because it is a time of plenty - left to their own devices they would return and collect all the corpses and bury them (usually leaving a leg sticking out of the ground so they can find it again) I will only go after fox at other times if I get asked like I did a couple of weeks ago - half grown cubs making a nuisance of themselves around a large duck pond. Yes I shoot 80+ foxes in 'my season' and some will be big cubs but I know I wont get all of them unlike shooting a dog and milky vixen in March which would guarantee the death of dependant cubs. To me a walk along the hedgerows and woods with a pair of binoculars will give me a better understanding of nature than walking with a gun ready to shoot the first thing I see with a leg in each corner. I will say I have no guilt in shooting magpies - elation actually!! Shootingcharley off this forum shares my opinion and he also has this self imposed season thing. I'll bet even money that in August this year someone on one of the forums will start a thread 'Anyone noticing a lack of foxes around?' Then waffle on about the lack of foxes about. For Christ's sake they don't breed like rats and have 10 litters a year. End of rant from an old *** ! Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drone Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I used to go wildfowling on the foreshore all over the UK, generally on my own or with a good friend, if I shot a couple of dozen in the course of a season I thought I'd done good. One year I went up Leven way arriving xmas day,sad i know, had a whale of a time with a guide and brought home one pink for about 10 shells. Next year my mates and I went up and i got 3 geese. The following year I went up and the guide had about 6 french guns in the squad, my brother had come over from the states and came up with me. I know I took fourteen geese home and my brother took 10, the french guys just wouldn't stop and the guide didn't stop them either. Massacre is the word that sprang to mind, those birds just don't need that. That was in 1987 and i've only been out once or twice since then and took a handful of pintail; I really had a massive guilt complex. This last year my youngest boy expressed an interest in going out for pigeons and so I said I'd get involved again and hopefully I'll be able to communicate the need for restraint to him. I'm going to start another thread about the best way to start a young lad (17 yesterday) in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arklyte Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I am just starting out and this is something I have thought about, it seems to me that taking a pigeon or a rabbit and the odd duck or goose for the table isn't really much different to buying it from a butcher of supermarket but then I hadn't envisaged that I would be shooting lots of creatures and not just through lack of ability. For me it is more about enjoying being outside in the countryside or on the foreshore and if luck goes my way then something for the table. I live in a rural area and I do try to avoid running birds, rabbits and the like over as I drive around but its quite hard sometimes when you are driving a bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I think it comes down to having a sound reason to shoot something. Killing is a serious business. With a few notorious exceptions even animal predators don't take it lightly. Killing to eat, to protect something you plan to eat, or to protect yourself or your own kind is part of the natural order. All species do it or are prepared to do it. The qualms start when it becomes purely a technical exercise or pure entertainment. I shot a pigeon recently with my .222. If felt slightly gratuitous afterwards and a bit mean. I was waiting for a dog fox wich has taken to moling on late afternoons in a particular field. Its a grass lay full of clover and a pigeon came down to feed. It was a 100 yd shot with little showing above the grass to hit. I took the shot as a technical challenge and I think that's what jarred slightly. I was entertaining myself. (The fox of course didn't show after that. Serve me right). I will no doubt put some decoys out on that field shortly and the same bird shot in 'proper' circumstances (and eaten - there was no question of eating it after thumping it with a CF) would somehow be a completely different matter. We can over-analyse it but I think that nuance is a healthy thing. As living creatures there's nothing wrong with rats. In fact they're quite cool little things. If they didn't do damage to so much stuff and spread disease I wouldn't feel the need to shoot them. I agree. Rats may be pests but like all creatures that harm our interests they don't do it out of malice. They do it because they don't know how to do anything else. No matter how much damage a pest is doing shooting it should be a constructive exercise in control. It should never feel like revenge. That's a bad motivation for doing anything and usually leads to more harm than good. I do enjoy shooting rats with the .22 and NV, but I need some shot shells. The last time I had a go at one was with subs and I missed and hit an old grain trailer in a disused barn. I believe that bullet is still going round now. Edited June 5, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben 990 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I think all quarry deserves respect it's what shootings all about. I've shot hundreds of foxes but I still get goosebumps if I watch one through the scope for any length of time before the shot, still gets my heart going after the shot and still feel a bit sick and guilty if it doesn't do the job quite as humanely as I'd like. Even rabbit shooting I won't take a shot unless I can 99% guarantee a clean kill ruins my night if I let one get away wounded. That's a lot of the reason I prefer rifles, got friends who lamp rabbits with shotguns from a vehicle and a lot get away, don't enjoy that. Don't tend to have so much sympathy for crows though, they don't seam to have the same courtesy for new born lambs. No animal deserves to needlessly suffer and if I've done everything I can to prevent it I'm happy. I'd rather be doing the job humanely than letting someone else with less respect do it. Let's face it, most people suffer more at some point in there lives than any animal shot with the right gun in the right hands, it's pretty humane if done properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 interesting thread so far iv just done clays and targets so its interesting finding out how others feel about live quarry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've shot pigeon for well over 30 years but more often than not stop once there's more than I carry back in one go. We all know it takes a few relatively fruitless outings before they decoy well but I personally don't take that as the reason to take revenge. People will mention vermin control etc, but that's never been my aim, same with rabbits, once you have enough for the freezer or more than you could give away then what's the point? I understand there are instances where plague proportion numbers require shoot and forget but mostly it should be about the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) This thread has been a really interesting read for me. Harnser's reply was the one that stood out to me the most - after pretty much a lifetime of shooting he's seriously considering packing it in. That really surprises me although of course I respect that he has his reasons. I find the feeling of shooting something so hard to explain to people. Especially those who don't shoot or even dislike the idea. When they say "so you enjoy killing things then" it just sounds wrong. I kind of do, but at the same time every time I shoot something I can't help but give it a moments thought because I know I've just ended it's life. Sometimes in fact it will even make me sad, yet I still do it? I think it goes a long way back to human nature of killing to survive? Some of us still hold that programme where many have lost it. I do know that I'd rather eat something wild than farmed meat though for my own peace of mind. One thing's for sure I don't think I could do it for a living. More than half of the deer I see I let walk away, only shooting them if they're causing a problem or when I need the meat. The rest I let live - why kill them? Edited June 6, 2012 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Maybe the phrase here is you enjoy 'shooting' it, as opposed to enjoy 'killing' it. There is a difference. I'm not overly keen on killing, in fact I tend to let flies, spiders, bees (even wasps) out rather than swatting them. Having said that I'd shoot whatever the farmer asked me to, and also whatever I wanted for meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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