digit Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 After a lot of googling I ended up ordering the torch Dave highlighted in his firt post in this thread. It's got a decent red LED for lamping, it's got a remote switch included and you know it'll all fit. Nial. I've been looking at this one off the same guy, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330650036804&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123 it's a 750 lumens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I've been looking at this one off the same guy, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330650036804&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123 it's a 750 lumens. That one is seriously bright.. white light so you'll easily be able to see all your bunnies scarpering. Might do the job for longer range fox though and it don't cost-a-lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 That one is seriously bright.. white light so you'll easily be able to see all your bunnies scarpering. Might do the job for longer range fox though and it don't cost-a-lot. It's got 5 mode's high,med,low,strobe and sos so you can pick the setting you'll need,I was thinking it seems an all rounder, i might be wrong.Your thoughts please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahorton Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 It's got 5 mode's high,med,low,strobe and sos so you can pick the setting you'll need,I was thinking it seems an all rounder, i might be wrong.Your thoughts please. That light will give a maximum of about 200 lumens (not 750). I can explain why if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Ha ha - mine was listed as 1000lm from this uk source: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultrafire-WF501B-XM-L-T6-CREE-1000Lm-XML-Torch-Only-UK-Stock-/110896713358?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Camping_LightsLanternsTorches&hash=item19d1f58e8e I'm not the best to explain why it makes me squint when used to scan in the dark in it's unmodified form: I think it's partly the harsh colour - and partly the wide spill. Either way the only way I can use it without affecting my eyes is with the DX lens/reflector. The extra modes are a real pain for our purposes. Edited June 27, 2012 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 That light will give a maximum of about 200 lumens (not 750). I can explain why if you're interested. I think it might be easier if you can please suggest the ideal torch for your lens+spacer kit, there's so many makes and models to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 That light will give a maximum of about 200 lumens (not 750). I can explain why if you're interested. Aye, go on! Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahorton Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) I think it might be easier if you can please suggest the ideal torch for your lens+spacer kit, there's so many makes and models to choose from. Short version: What you want to look for is an Ultrafire WF-501B with an 'XR-E' (preferably 'R2') that is driven about 1000mA or 1A. For your purposes this will be the easiest and best value. You also want to see a picture of the brass dropin that should look like the one in my video. Long version: Here are a few lessons. Don't be scared off by the jargon. This will help you make wise choices when buying white LED lights. LED Type The 'XR-E' is a type of LED made by a company called CREE. CREE make all the best LEDs in the category you care about. They also make the XP-G, XP-C, XP-E, XR-C, XR-E, XM-L and MC-E. Flux bin Other ratings you may see include Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5, R3, R4, R5, S2, T6, U2 etc. The higher the letters and numbers are better. Q2 < Q3 < Q4 < Q5 < R2 < R3 < R4 < R5 < S2 < T6 < U2 etc However, the XR-E only goes up to R2. So if you see an "XR-E R5" then you know they are lying while an "XP-G R5" may be genuine. It is impossible to visually identify which flux bin an LED belongs to so many cheap manufacturers buy the cheapest ones and put a false label on them. The difference can be up to 50% efficiency. Current rating An XR-E R2 is capable of 260 lumens at 1000mA. Of course if you only drive it at 350mA then you only get about 115 lumens. Similarly, the XM-L U2 is capable of 1000lm at 3000mA. If it's only run at 600mA then you'll only get a bit over 200lm. Also: The Ultrafire WF-501B switch is really only capable of 1000mAh. So if you see one advertising more, then someone is probably lying. Or worse, they're honest and your switch will burn out within a week. Die Size When you use an aspheric lens like mine, you'll be projecting an image of the LED's die. This is why you get a square beam. Suppose you compare two LEDs with the same flux (eg 100 lumens), but one has a die that is 1mm^2 (1mm x 1mm) and the other has a die that is 4mm^2 (2mm x 2mm). Both are producing the same amount of light. However, the second one has a bigger die so its projected image (the beam) will be much wider. Also, the second one will be only 25% as bright as the first because its light is being spread over a wider beam. Ratios are helpful here. 100 lumens / (1x1mm) = 100 lumens mm^-2 vs 100 / (2x2mm) = 25 lumens mm^-2. If you want a long-range beam, then the first is much better since its beam is 4x brighter. Now some real numbers: The best XM-L can produce 1000lm at 3A and has a die of 5mm^2 -> 1000/5 = 200 lm/mm^2 The best XP-G can produce 490lm at 1.5A and has a die of 2mm^2 -> 490/2 = 245 lm/mm^2 The best XR-E can produce 260lm at 1.0A and has a die of 1mm^2 -> 260/1 = 260 lm/mm^2 So with the same lens the XR-E will shine further than the higher-powered ones. Of course if you feed them each the same power then the XM-L and XP-G get even worse. View angle LEDs emit most of their light forwards but some goes sideways. An aspheric lens can only use light that is emitted in an 82 degree cone forward from the LED. Any light going sideways (83 degrees or more) is lost. The XM-L emits about 70% of its light within an 82 degree cone. The XR-E emits about 85% of its light within an 82 degree cone. Again the XR-E performs better than the higher powered XM-L. B) Getting serious: If you get a genuine XR-E R2 driven at 1000mA, then you'll get 260 lm/mm^2. This will give a very nice beam, but it's not the best. An XP-C Q4 only produces 130 lm at its maximum current of 500mA, but its die is 0.49 mm^2 -> 265 lm/mm^2. With proper thermal management, I can drive these up to 1.4A and get about 500 lm/mm^2. Of course this requires either a lot of work or money. I just wanted to let you know what is possible with these lenses if you end up getting interested. Edited June 27, 2012 by ahorton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) ah right Edited June 27, 2012 by telf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) is there any chance of a step by step guide in words and pictures if possible as to which order and how all the pieces,spacers,lens go together and a picture of the how the finished torch should look,sorry if im being a pain but im still lost by it all,ive got the idea of painting the reflector etc but am a bit lost as to where the spacers etc go cheers dave Edited June 27, 2012 by telf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 is there any chance of a step by step guide in words and pictures if possible as to which order and how all the pieces,spacers,lens go together and a picture of the how the finished torch should look,sorry if im being a pain but im still lost by it all,ive got the idea of painting the reflector etc but am a bit lost as to where the spacers etc go cheers dave Its in post 40, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 When I used the Ultrafire WF501B red beam hunting lamp all I did to control light spill was to cut the bottom out of a black 35mm film tub and put that over the lamp cowl. It is a snug fit and tightens the beam considerably. If you can't get a black film tub wrap some electrician's tape around the tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Thats some serious product knowledge going on there Ash, thank you sir. Guys, I'm not infallible and I get quite easily confused and can be forgetful sometimes, however I am definitely not able to guess who's cheque arrived this morning in the name of Farakh as a first name. Farakh also needs to read the first post to find out what torch to get - skip reading the thread will do no favours because the post about the glue is going to be missed - as is the post with the video details. Puh-lease include your PW name - WHO is Farakh please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 When I used the Ultrafire WF501B red beam hunting lamp all I did to control light spill was to cut the bottom out of a black 35mm film tub and put that over the lamp cowl. It is a snug fit and tightens the beam considerably. If you can't get a black film tub wrap some electrician's tape around the tub. That just confines the wide spill without 'repositioning' it into the beam. This setup actually shifts that amount of wasted light energy into the tight square beam we want for hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 cheers digit read through the whole thread at least half a dozen times and missed it every time,fully clued up now, atb dave dave did you manage to order me another lens and spacer kit cheers dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Cheers ahorton, i've got a better idea what i'm looking for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 That just confines the wide spill without 'repositioning' it into the beam. This setup actually shifts that amount of wasted light energy into the tight square beam we want for hunting. I can't see how it does not 'repositioning' it into the beam. The light can only escape the tub by going forward. Why not just put a cylinder of aly foil inside the film tub? That should result in most of the light goes straight forward with less absorbtion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtailhawk1 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Just an idea but could you guys that have the know how make some up and sell them on? You then make some money back for your time and the rest of us that still have not fully grasped it could buy one. Just an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Just an idea but could you guys that have the know how make some up and sell them on? You then make some money back for your time and the rest of us that still have not fully grasped it could buy one. Just an idea I was a bit baffled, but watch the video on page 2 or 3 and it all becomes very clear. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I can't see how it does not 'repositioning' it into the beam. The light can only escape the tub by going forward. Why not just put a cylinder of aly foil inside the film tub? That should result in most of the light goes straight forward with less absorbtion. That would just result in the light being randomly reflected sideways, not concentrated in the beam direction. Using a properly designed lens should concentrate more of the light into the beam so there's less leaking out the sides. AFAIUI. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I can't see how it does not 'repositioning' it into the beam. The light can only escape the tub by going forward. Why not just put a cylinder of aly foil inside the film tub? That should result in most of the light goes straight forward with less absorbtion. "Blocking" the radiation from a light source doesn't mean it comes out somewhere else - that part just mostly doesn't come out at all, and what does is still going off at angles we don't want it to. Imagine if you blocked off the whole torch lens - where would it come out then? lol. I don't have the word power to describe the difference between light waves, sound waves or radio waves and flowable material like water or sand - which would behave in the way you describe, albeit slightly restricted. Liquid or granular mass for example can flow through a pipe and round bends in the pipe, and flow say two ways out through a "T" piece or even more ways out in the urinal system in the local gents toilet. Light cannot do that but I'm getting frustrated that I can't put it into words. I have to go out now for more taxi pickups and will try and think a better answer through for you. EDIT: I can't, and I hope no else answers on this thread either to be honest - in a nice way because it is likely to take this thread way off track and make it even harder for people to follow without losing the will to see it through. I'm sure there are websites and forums that can answer your question but this is a shooting forum with a thread about modifying a certain type of torch for shooters rather than explaining the physics of light transmission. Try this maybe: http://ask.metafilter.com/9692/Why-does-light-reflect. Or perhaps the Candlepower forum. Edited June 28, 2012 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 cheers digit read through the whole thread at least half a dozen times and missed it every time,fully clued up now, atb dave dave did you manage to order me another lens and spacer kit cheers dave Yes mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telf Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 cheers dave money sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Just an idea but could you guys that have the know how make some up and sell them on? You then make some money back for your time and the rest of us that still have not fully grasped it could buy one. Just an idea We just can't win it seems. There were some people complaining on night vision forums that everyone was too secretive about their homebrews when in fact the complainers just couldn't be bothered to sit down with a cuppa and look through the threads that had told them exactly what to buy to make their own. In this case, you don't need to know what makes LED's emit most of their light forwards, rather than a burning coil/filament that emits light in almost every direction for example, all you need to know is how to put the bits together and it's all written in this thread. The more this thread gets de-railled the harder it will be for people to keep track of the few bits they need to know. Tell-ya-wot, just an idea like: I'll buy an LED torch as listed in my first post, buy the glue to bond the LED to the brass pill as listed by Ash, buy the custom made aspheric lens and custom made spacers, fit them as per Ash's instructional post and video then sell it to you with the usual extortionate mark up that so many people reckon suppliers make at um, oh say £99.99p. It will have no warranty as there would be no way to control how long you leave it turned on for. A cheaper way to aquire things is to use this forum section, and read the threads that explain how people can make things so much cheaper for themselves. That was just an idea like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) cheers dave money sent Thanks Telf. Dave-G wants 2 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kits. Roughcoat wants 1 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kit......... payed thanks. Nial wants 1 P60 aspheric Lens + spacers kit................... payed thanks Fisheruk wants 1 P60 aspheric Lens + spacers kit ...........payed thanks Loki wants 1 P60 aspheric Lens + spacers kit................... Cheque received thanks Gerry wants 1 P60 aspheric Lens + spacers kit Telf wants 2 P60 aspheric Lens + spacers kit................... payed thanks Jamiedenny wants 1 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kit dave3p wants 1 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kit ................ Payed thanks Marky610 wants 2 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kits. ............ payed thanks Misfire wants 2 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kits............... payed thanks digit wants 1 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kit .................. Payed thanks Getafix wants 1 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kit .................. payed thanks Group buy total: 17 P60 Aspheric Lens + Spacers kits. Edited June 28, 2012 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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