Birdboy Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thats what mine says Had an e mail back from D&C Police today to confirm their records show my certificate is 'Open'. BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Frenchie it appears you WMR is not conditioned for fox like you told us all. Your .22rf being further conditioned for humane dispatch of fox should even discredit any counter claim that foxes are vermin. So apparently there are still no shooters in Lancs conditioned for fox control with a rimfire unless someone can show differently appologies, you remain the only one i know of my FEO was stunned and new of nobody with fox on any rimfire in thier area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Chaps, This difference is a major cause for a concern - so much variation and difference between forces on calibres. I have posted about Cheshire not allowing a .243 solely for fox. Having spoken to a few the largest calibre which is allowed for deer and fox is a .308 in North Wales next door ! Equally others on here have fox as part of their conditions on .44 underlevers. I for one would appreciate BASC doing a survey and exposing the worst and most obvious differences like rimfires for fox, mentoring conditions as pre cursors, DSC1's etc. I would very happily give two days a week to collate this information and help produce a UK report of firearms licensing 'from a customer perspective'. At the moment this looks set to continue but if such an authoritative report were submitted to ACPO licensing Committee, having first accepted any advice from them, then, I believe it would change some Chief Cons (and their staffs) approach to who gets what, where. Please note Davidbasc - no cost apart from postages and member survey - massive member's benefit I would suggest. Or has this been done already ! Edited June 30, 2012 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 My wording is slightly different on my 'open' cert. It says. The firearms and ammunition shall be used for shooting vermin and ground game/fox/deer and for zeroing on ranges, or land and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. Ive just fired off an e mail to D&C Police to clarify. It took blooming ages to get it opened in the first place. Lets hope there hasnt been a clerical error and i have to go through the whole process again ! Be thankful that, like me, you live in God's Country where a sensible and pragmatic approach is taken with firearms licensing. Not for us the micromanagement of FAC conditions such as frenchies example but a simple easy to understand one line all encompassing condition that basically says you may go forth and shoot anything with any of your rifles as long as it's legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Always tickles me this, I got a .270 on an open certificate at 18. Seems like some of you have pretty rubbish firearms departments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I had my interview a few days ago and here in Sussex they allow 17HMR for fox, I was quite pleased yet surprised by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Always tickles me this, I got a .270 on an open certificate at 18. Seems like some of you have pretty rubbish firearms departments! times unfortunatly have been changing. Perhaps as less people understand or have a rudementry working knoledge the rules get dafter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Be thankful that, like me, you live in God's Country where a sensible and pragmatic approach is taken with firearms licensing. Not for us the micromanagement of FAC conditions such as frenchies example but a simple easy to understand one line all encompassing condition that basically says you may go forth and shoot anything with any of your rifles as long as it's legal. Snap except mine is pests and deer. Fundamentally the onus is on us anyway not to cause unnecessary suffering. It never makes sense to shoot what you like with shotguns then forces get precious with rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Im in lancs I have 17hmr and its got fox in the condituons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Frenchie it appears you WMR is not conditioned for fox like you told us all. Your .22rf being further conditioned for humane dispatch of fox should even discredit any counter claim that foxes are vermin. So apparently there are still no shooters in Lancs conditioned for fox control with a rimfire unless someone can show differently I have edited this post because was not too polite but I have since seen the post put up by Kent at 08:27AM today where he acknowledges that I am in fact conditioned for shooting fox with my .22WMR! I jumped the gun and I openly applogise for that! Edited June 30, 2012 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Frenchie I'd be tempted just to ignore if someone is having an argument with their feo and wants to wind them up you could find their interference quoting you could have negative repercussions for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Im in lancs I have 17hmr and its got fox in the condituons You know i dont actually want a rimfire listed for fox, its just that i have been told by two FEO's and the last head of department that lancs wont do it. Actually i agree with them besides any other matter it stops them saying no you cant have a c/fire the rimfire will do for foxes also. my conversations with the FEO were mearly pointing out the madness that goes on at public expense in thier department and my joy that Phil had lost the job of head of dept. I am not so stupid to name names of those who have strange conditions that might even be error. Don't think they make errors? well i have seen a .22 hornet conditioned for deer, even though it would be illegal The fact remains that most RFD's etc in Lancs will still tell you not to ask for fox on rimfire as it will be refused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 I have edited this post because was not too polite but I have since seen the post put up by Kent at 08:27AM today where he acknowledges that I am in fact conditioned for shooting fox with my .22WMR! I jumped the gun and I openly applogise for that! Stupid mistake made by reading 5 & 7 and jumping to conclusions. I know they do some contradicory stuff at times and know a respected local keeper who was told no to vermin using his centrefire, yet i live very close to him and have it. Can i also say that P.K said only a year ago when he was still in post (nobody in lancs gets rimfire granted for fox) Was your request after his departure? i know Sykes whouldn't go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Kent, I know exactly what you are saying so I have sent you a PM rather than go into things on open forum mate! If you want to talk in more detail please PM me your contact number and I will call you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 You know i dont actually want a rimfire listed for fox, its just that i have been told by two FEO's and the last head of department that lancs wont do it. Actually i agree with them besides any other matter it stops them saying no you cant have a c/fire the rimfire will do for foxes also. my conversations with the FEO were mearly pointing out the madness that goes on at public expense in thier department and my joy that Phil had lost the job of head of dept. I am not so stupid to name names of those who have strange conditions that might even be error. Don't think they make errors? well i have seen a .22 hornet conditioned for deer, even though it would be illegal The fact remains that most RFD's etc in Lancs will still tell you not to ask for fox on rimfire as it will be refused That sounds very bitter at your lack of getting the condition. The word fox on a rimfire is pretty vague when you think about it. Covers large dog foxes to Cubs not much bigger than your hand. Cubs a rimfire is perfect for and fortunately my force see it that way. The argument will go round and round the bitter ones jealous about others conditions will just try and sound morrally right when they know they are talking bull as in certain conditions rimfires are the tool for the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben 990 Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Just looking through my conditions out of interest. Says at the bottom "The certificate holder may possess, purchase or aquire expanding ammunition, or the missiles of such ammunition, in calibers authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with the shooting of vermin or, IN CONECTION WITH THE MANAGEMENT ON ANY ESTATE, OTHER WILDLIFE." Anyone know what that's supposed to mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 times unfortunatly have been changing. Perhaps as less people understand or have a rudementry working knoledge the rules get dafter Sorry kent, this was only 4 years ago. Just lucky to have local police that shoot I guess. To the original poster: why not give it 6 months and use up a lot of ammo at targets? Good practise and it looks like you are using the gun lots and safely. Then just fire a letter into your local department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 At the end of the day all calibres will kill depending on shot placement range ect by saying I had 17 on my ticket I was just pointing out the vague and oddity's of some of the restrictions I think the only reason I have this condition in lancs is that I move from another authority who allowed them. Personally I only use my 22:250 on fox but could see a reason for something smaller and less noisey ie in town gardens as in london who are now inundated with urban foxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Just looking through my conditions out of interest. Says at the bottom "The certificate holder may possess, purchase or aquire expanding ammunition, or the missiles of such ammunition, in calibers authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with the shooting of vermin or, IN CONECTION WITH THE MANAGEMENT ON ANY ESTATE, OTHER WILDLIFE." Anyone know what that's supposed to mean? It is the standard all encompassing expanding ammo condition that we all have. This condition states what expanding ammo MAY be used for IF your rifle conditions authorise you to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben 990 Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 It is the standard all encompassing expanding ammo condition that we all have. This condition states what expanding ammo MAY be used for IF your rifle conditions authorise you to do so. Just wondered what's ment by "other wildlife" and why it says "any estate"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Just wondered what's ment by "other wildlife" and why it says "any estate"? The condition when drafted was a bit of a rush job. It tried to cover any and every eventuality where someone would need authority to use expanding ammo for any reason on any species of wildlife on any land (estate). This could be anything from safari park employees and farmed buffalo units through to DEFRA badger culls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben 990 Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 The condition when drafted was a bit of a rush job. It tried to cover any and every eventuality where someone would need authority to use expanding ammo for any reason on any species of wildlife on any land (estate). This could be anything from safari park employees and farmed buffalo units through to DEFRA badger culls. Cheers! Always wondered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdboy Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 After double checking with D&C Police my cert is open, they gave me the following information to clarify the wording of it being open. I can confirm you do hold an ‘open’ certificate allowing you to shoot on land over which you have lawful authority to shoot. e.g. where you have been given permission. The ‘closed’ condition states “land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police.......” Hope this helps. BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoQuad Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Just looking through my conditions out of interest. Says at the bottom "The certificate holder may possess, purchase or aquire expanding ammunition, or the missiles of such ammunition, in calibers authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with the shooting of vermin or, IN CONNECTION WITH THE MANAGEMENT ON ANY ESTATE, OTHER WILDLIFE." Anyone know what that's supposed to mean? Reading this thread with interest! My FAC is closed and has the standard wording above as well. No-where does it mention foxes. I have always assumed that the .17HMR would be ok for fox (given the wording, the fact the FAC doesn't exclude fox and that they are defined as vermin). I realise there are divided opinions about use of .17HMR on fox and don't want to start that debate here but am wondering what the FACs say where members are NOT authorised to shoot fox with rim fire? Are they specifically worded to prohibit use on foxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Reading this thread with interest! My FAC is closed and has the standard wording above as well. No-where does it mention foxes. I have always assumed that the .17HMR would be ok for fox (given the wording, the fact the FAC doesn't exclude fox and that they are defined as vermin). I realise there are divided opinions about use of .17HMR on fox and don't want to start that debate here but am wondering what the FACs say where members are NOT authorised to shoot fox with rim fire? Are they specifically worded to prohibit use on foxes? In my county my fac for rimfire will probably say the same as yours as I cannot shoot fox with lr hmr. If I could it would have fox listed aswell as vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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