Peskyfoxs Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I have just been informed that if I get any further permissions that unless the land is already cleared I won't be able to get a land check as I have had 2 already :o The first check I am supposed to have asked for is already cleared for my max calibre (.243) and I supplied the name and phone number of the FEO who cleared the land from another force. My own farm only had half the land checked and I can't have it rechecked as they only clear entire areas not just 1/2 a farm. I have spoken to BASC who say there is no real appeal ... any body else seen a 2 check rule ? I'm with West Yorks by the way Edited July 9, 2012 by Peskyfoxs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Just apply for an open ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Just apply for an open ticket. Sorry forgot to say I have just had my certs through so a new shooter.,.. doubt I'kll get open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I got mine opened up after six months. It depends on how well you get on with your FEO and what you can bribe them with if you can provide references from other shooters. Seems a bit odd that they would only clear half your farm though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtailhawk1 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I had more than two. Infact it was 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I got mine opened up after six months. It depends on how well you get on with your FEO and what you can bribe them with if you can provide references from other shooters. Seems a bit odd that they would only clear half your farm though... They only checked 1/2 as I was going to show then around and the officer said he woukld call, he then did the check himself but didn't look at the section with good backstops. I was told that the whole farm has to be suitable not just the 20-30 acres on one side. Edited July 9, 2012 by Peskyfoxs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin128 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 One of my permissions on the Gower had areas where up to 223rem was ok but with one place where 22lr only. 2 summers ago I was ringing up every few weeks until I applied and received open cert. No such thing as safe land...safe shooter, yes. Clock up a few years experience and then apply for open...keep your nose clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 An appeal would depend on the nature of what you are applying for. If it's just a variation to your conditions then there is no appeal (although there may be some route via judicial review or something obscure but it will be expensive), if you apply to add a firearm and state that it is for use on a piece of land and they refuse then you would have the usual right to a sec.44 appeal against a refusal to vary the certificate. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 So does everyone get firearms cert, and then not get any more land checked till they can get an open cert ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theosmith Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 when ive wanted land checked all ive done is phoned essex firearms and they check on there computer and say yes thats fine to shoot and upto what calibre, when i applied for fac even tho land i wanted to shoot on was cleared it got re-checked and confirmed with land owners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) So does everyone get firearms cert, and then not get any more land checked till they can get an open cert ? No, not everyone gets an open ticket. Some forces are happy to sign people off to self certify land and others are stubborn and don't give out open tickets to people who've had a licence for 5+ years... Your force should come out and check the land, but given the cutbacks, you'll find that stuff like this will take longer. Why not get a friend who has got a licence to 'join' your land. They can call up the department and ask to get it cleared. If they get the nod and it's cleared, you can shoot it without having to run it past the police. Edited July 9, 2012 by Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Hi Andrew, I know the one permission that is cleared for your .243 and there is no problem there! Obviously I can not comment on the other permission or the restrictions on it as I have not seen it. As for this only 2 land checks per person I have never heard of this before. When I originally got my FAC I had to have land checks and the FEO did 7 or 8 for me all at the same time while I went out on to the permissions with him. I then got another half a dozen permissions of which 3 needed checking (I was still on a "closed" ticket then) and my FEO told me that if I wanted any more checked before I got my open ticket it would be no problem - There was (My FEO told me) no restriction on the amount of land checks they were willing to do for me. As you know I am with Lancashire so it appears that different forces (once again) have different ways of doing things! I wonder what the situation would be with you if you got 3 or 4 more permissions that needed checking, would they refuse to do the checks saying that you were restricted to only two land checks? If this was the case then I am sure that you would have a reasonable right to appeal due to the restrictive circumstances, after all how are you expected to gain sufficient experience if they are going to restrict you on the amount of permissions you have that are cleared for you to shoot on? As for getting your ticket "opened" with Lancashire there isn't a time limit as such, it is more down to how much experience you have gained and getting someone to vouch for your experience. However, yet again different forces have different ways of doing things! Edit: Andrew, I have just noticed what Billy has said. If push comes to shove and they would be happy with someone with an open ticket to join you on any new permissions and confirm that the land was safe for whatever calibre you know that you can call on me to help you out mate, you have my phone number! Edited July 9, 2012 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Edit: Andrew, I have just noticed what Billy has said. If push comes to shove and they would be happy with someone with an open ticket to join you on any new permissions and confirm that the land was safe for whatever calibre you know that you can call on me to help you out mate, you have my phone number! I didn't really mean it like that. As a person with an open ticket doesn't get to officially sign off land for future generations. If he shot with someone who had a closed ticket and the other person called up the FLD and asked to have Andrew's land checked, they may go ahead with it and then once it's checked, it'll be forever cleared and Andrew can just shoot without having to even speak to the FLD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I could see this coming. I would hate to say how many times I have read people advising others to put in for as many land checks as possible, in an attempt to make firearms licensing so fed up with doing land checks that they will open their certificate. Little wonder one firearms licensing manager has dug his heels in. If this stance helps speed up grants, renewals and variations then I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 My own farm only had half the land checked and I can't have it rechecked as they only clear entire areas not just 1/2 a farm. how have they quantified this? If they have cleared XYZ farm but only looked at half the land then you can legitimately shoot the whole thing. If half the farm is on a seaparate site then just give it a different name when you want them to check it Obviously this is a cost cutting measure by the force in question but it severely limits you, as such I'd use a stack of ammo as fast as possible then start pushing for an open ticket as they are unwilling to check other farms for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hi Pete, they pretty much said you have 2 permissions, you have what you need and any more than aren't cleared already aren't going to be cleared for a considerablew amount of time as I have had my allocation of checks. I'm thinking I will get another opinion on my hilly bit of land to see if its worth hassling them about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 They only checked 1/2 as I was going to show then around and the officer said he woukld caal, he then did the check himself but didn't lokk at the section with good backstops. I was told that the whole farm has to be suitable not just the 20-30 acres on one side. total rubbish, there aint any land were the lot is safe for a shot. write to the chief constable and make a direct complaint on this matter. To think people like this are called "qualified" is totally laughable. Land checks should be about assesing the candidates knoledge and his own risk assesments. Lirally even in the remotest parts of the highlands etc nowere is totally safe for any shot. The fact is above half the FEOs i have met recently do not even shoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I am also with W Yorks and whilst the FEOs seem fine, it seems to be the licencing manager I was also told that as i had two farms passed, plus a property i have permission on outside West Yorks approved for my centrefire, i would have to wait for the next two i had asked for until next year . One is local and one is again outside the West Yorks force area. The FEO asked for my centrefire to be opened up, he was happy to approve it, and was a top chap but the licencing manager said no. 18 months minimum but the 2 land checks rule seems to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I didn't really mean it like that. As a person with an open ticket doesn't get to officially sign off land for future generations. If he shot with someone who had a closed ticket and the other person called up the FLD and asked to have Andrew's land checked, they may go ahead with it and then once it's checked, it'll be forever cleared and Andrew can just shoot without having to even speak to the FLD. That being the case I will hold my hands up and appologise, I misunderstood what you meant Billy! I see what you mean now and I can see the logic and sense in it! I still say that it is rediculous to only be allowed two land checks per shooter while on closed conditions! How about new shooters that may have been offered let's say half a dozen permissions, none of which had not been checked in the past? Surely that would restrict them to just the two permissions and be seen as the Firearms Office being far too restrictive towards the shooter, especially if it were permissions where there were specific requests for vermin control to be done by that specific shooter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I am also with W Yorks and whilst the FEOs seem fine, it seems to be the licencing manager I was also told that as i had two farms passed, plus a property i have permission on outside West Yorks approved for my centrefire, i would have to wait for the next two i had asked for until next year . Thanks Keg, not just me then Having just spoke to the FEO who interviewed me turns out they have only done 1 land check (home) and not the other as it was already cleared as I told them. So in theory I am one in credit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Not just you Pesky. In fairness West Yorks are normally good it just seems to be land checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Not just you Pesky. In fairness West Yorks are normally good it just seems to be land checks. They have been great in every way, helpful and pleasant to speak to ... apart from sorting where I can actually shoot .. pity its a rather crucial part of the whole shooting malarky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 That is the fundemental bit..... Which part of west yorks are you in, I am N Leeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peskyfoxs Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 That is the fundemental bit..... Which part of west yorks are you in, I am N Leeds I'm horsforth way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Just playing devils advocate, although allowing only two checks per licence holder on a a closed ticket is restrictive it kind of makes sense. If a few shooter in an area were lucky enough to earn multiple permissions then all that licencing officer would be doing is traipsing around checking land all day, they just wouldn't have enough time what with all the applications and revocations they have to deal with. I do think though that if multiple land requests were put in it would add weight to getting an open ticket sooner providing the feo is happy the shooter is sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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