harpoonlouis Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Has anyone got access to a punt gun? Been looking for a dimensioned drawing of a 2 inch bore punt gun or an example to go measure. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) I`m sure you know that it is illegal to actually shoot wildfowl with a 2" gun. The largest legal bore size you can shoot with is 1 3/4 inches. Exactly what dimensions do you need? Edited July 10, 2012 by mudpatten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRYAN3 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 On a similar note. Please forgive the hijacking but I would like to get detailed drawings or plans for a traditional gunning punt. I have been looking for years. Of course I will pay for copying and p&p if anyone can help. ATB-Bryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpoonlouis Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 No I didn't know that, what piece of legislation does that come from? I was looking at 2 inch based purely on the legality of ownership. Tell me more please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Check out the wildlife and countryside act Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aister Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 i am 99% sure that one of peter hawkers books "advice to young sportsmen" has detailed plans of gunning punts, plans for single and two man punts as well as punts for guns of different weights. i would love to make one some day for my RFDs punt gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpoonlouis Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Seems to be some confusion out there...Of interest to puntgunners only, the maximum barrel bore which is allowed is an internal diameter of 1 inches at the muzzle. Alternatively PUNTGUNNING AND THE LAW The Wildlife and Countryside Act (1981) sets out the quarry species that may be shot and the months of the year that they may be shot. In Northern Ireland The Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order applies. The Act also stipulates that it is illegal to use a shotgun having an internal bore diameter of more than 1.75 inch. Will keep digging or talk to BASC tomorrow. Edited July 10, 2012 by harpoonlouis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Is it not <2" for a legal shotgun above this it's a cannon? Which is different to quarry specific regs I.e you could shoot a fox with a 1.99" gun but not a goose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Are you building a punt gun John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/89539-new-duckpunt/page__view__findpost__p__806039__hl__puntgun__fromsearch__1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 On a similar note. Please forgive the hijacking but I would like to get detailed drawings or plans for a traditional gunning punt. I have been looking for years. Of course I will pay for copying and p&p if anyone can help. ATB-Bryan. I think someone on here built a gunning punt recently , could it be mud patten. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Not guilty mate, that was Popgun, starting, according to the site search engine, on 27/1/10. He made a superb job of building it although the dimensions would not have been of my choosing. Punt gunning is a complex subject but there are a few ground rules. Don`t always go for the biggest gun.(A 2" gun would be illegal to shoot with.)Bore size would depend very much on the availability of quarry and in many areas the traditional size of gun would be much smaller, say between 1" and 1 1/4" firing from 8 to 14 ounces of shot. A 1 1/2" gun firing 16 oz would be a good compromise for most areas. Don`t forget that you will have to feed the brute non toxic shot and, since you`ll only be using black powder for reasons of proof, we`re talking one of the heavier types of NTX which means you`ll be looking at about £30 a bang since steel cannot be made to work in a punt gun. You simply can`t get it to go fast enough with BP. Don`t be tempted to rush after, or build a breach loader unless you have completely examined the option of the good old muzzle loader which will be lighter, less expensive to build and will probably shoot better. The bigger the bore size, the heavier the gun. When you start to exceed 120 pounds, simply carrying the gun around becomes an issue and the bigger it is,the more it affects the punts handling and safety.The seakeeping is affected by the weight and sufficient strength in the punt to take the heavy recoil becomes an issue. It`s worth doing a bit of research and seeing if there is a local style of punt for your area. They may well have evolved for a reason and it`s worth making the effort to understand their design features. The design of Hawkers punts are quite old fashioned and very heavy.Few experienced gunners would use Hawkers plans to build from.Payne Galweys punts just don`t work very well although they are a good starting point, provided you know where you`re going with the design. BASC does a very good leaflet on puntgunning which is worth reading before anyone thinks about going any further with it. Even if you belong to a fowling club you might want to have a word with them before appearing on the shore with a complete outfit. You might unknowingly be about to upset a very delicately balanced apple cart. A decent gun,bought in or made would cost about £1-3,000, the punt about £1,500 to £3,000+ and all the ancillary gear which would include a trailer, another £1,200. On top of all that, unless you can find someone to show you the ropes you`re looking at about a 10 year apprenticeship before it all starts to come right. Although no punt gunners have died recently,the sea, the mud, the wind, the cold, the punt, the sheer physical effort required and the gun itself regularly kill their users. Punt gunning is not for the faint hearted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiedenny Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) Informative answer, punt gunning is illegal in the states (or at least the state I was dicussing with someone) so its nice to see there is something we have managed to keep hold of. There was also a good article in a magazine. I'll dig it out when I remember which one. Edited July 11, 2012 by jamiedenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hello, I've just joined the forum but might be able to help with drawings of a punt and gun. I'm in the process of building both so have autoCAD drawings, 3d renderd models and PDFs for a double punt and a 1 1/4" gun. If your interested drop me a mail on ianw123@hotmail.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Do you mind if I ask what style of punt are you building mate? Is it a local design or something else? Just out of curiosity, and its no business of mine, but are you reasonably confident that the punt plans to which you are working will actually lead to a punt that handles properly. You might well be an experienced gunner who knows about punt design, please ignore my comment if you are. But I`ve seen more than a few people lash out a load of money to build a punt which, to the experienced eye, was never going to work properly. Again, and out of curiosity, any reason for building a 1 1/4 inch gun, which is quite small, for use with a double punt? Good luck with your project and I hope it woks out for you. I don`t have autocad drawings, 3d rendered models or pdf`s but I have assisted with the building of six punts and have working experience of a further twenty different punts. I`m only too pleased to share what experience I have,in the interest of passing on the sports history, and you`re welcome to ignore it if you desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 The punt is based on the Payne gallwey design as having discussed it with other gunners they all agreed that this is one of the most successful. Which does make me wonder what prompts your comments above. What in particular don't you like about these designs? The gun is only 1 1/4" as the marshes that I will be using it on doesn't justify anything larger. Again other local gunners have said although they have 1 1/2" guns they only load them with 10 - 12oz which a 1 1/4" gun can cope with. Any constructive input anyone has is always greatfuly received. I will post pics soon so you can see the progress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) It`s refreshing to see the amount of thought you`ve put into your choice of gun bore size. You often see people rush out and buy the biggest gun they can find before discovering that biggest is`nt always best. Are you building a breach or muzzle loader? My comments are prompted by the following reasons. When referring to punt design, obviously, if one does not come from an area where punts are,or were, commonplace ones first problem is, where does one find a design to build to? At this point RPG comes into play as one of the few writers to include detailed plans of punt design. The problem is, that RPG wasn`t much of a punt gunner, all the technically difficult parts of the sport, setting and sculling were done by his paid puntsman. RPG actually says in his books that, if he did`nt have a decent puntsman available, he did`nt go afloat. And yet the plans he published are regarded in many quarters as the industry standard. If you come from an area with no tradition of punting then one has no alternative yardstick. As you can see from my location, I come from the area where puntgunning was born and the punts long ago reached a pinacle of design for local conditions. The problem though, is that no one has yet written anything about the local history of puntgunning or punt design so when I mention a South Coast punt, very few people know what I`m talking about. The problem with both of the RPG designed double punt dimensions is that they tend to "head the wind", they have a poor grip on the water and are difficult to pole in a straight line unless the boat is seriously ballasted. The one I`m often a passenger in has 50lbs of lead shot in a sack under the foredeck to try and get the punt to hold course. They row badly and are very difficult to scull. If you look at the last photo of RPG taken at Holy Island in 1916 with his puntsman Steven Shuttler, you will note that his punt design has seriously evolved and looks nothing like the one you are about to build. If you also look at the few photos in magazines or in BASC`s own leaflet on punt gunning you will notice that none of the punts illustrated are of RPG`s design. Knowledgeable punters often describe RPG as a good design starting point, which is quite true if you know which parts of the design to avoid. Have you looked at any of the designs by Scott, Dalgety or Frearson? These, or variations on them are what the majority of punters are using if they are not working to a traditional local design. Edited August 12, 2012 by mudpatten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I plan to build a muzzle loader purely for ease of cleaning and unloading should I not get a shot off, and from a technical point of view it isn't much more difficult to build a muzzle loader over a breach loader. I come from North East Essex so too have a lot of local heritage and traditionally designed punts, however many of which are open decked which I can see absolutely no positive points for this particular trait. The area i will do most of my punting drains rather quickly leaving very little water in the gullies so i wanted a boat that doesn't draw too deeply like some other designs i have seen, that said, I had heard similar points regarding the steering due to bow slippage, as such a have made some slight adjustments to the depth / curvature forward of midship to go some way to countering this. I ran CFD on both versions and it definitely helps.... I haven't made the 'full size' double punt either as 'm not particularly heavy and as I say, i don't plan to use a huge gun on it meaning it should sit down in the water more so than a full double would, helping it to 'grip' the water a little better. Only time will tell i guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 This was a couple of days ago, the view from the rear whilst fitting the rear section of top deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Brilliant! Having made the alterations to the punt design that you have will have cured pretty much all of the issues we talked about. I`m a great fan of muzzle loaders. They shoot better, are relatively lighter and almost unbreakable. I can never understand why people persist with these new fangled breachloaders. I take your point about the Essex shouts. They date back to the very early days of punt design, back in the 1820`s, and they never seem to have developed. You are quite right in that they have no positive points and are not used in any other part of the country. Your punt looks great. Will it be finished in time to use this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 I dont think it will be done for the start of the season but mid October should see her afloat! I have just started a fresh post so as to avoid hijacking this one any further. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/217901-making-a-gunning-punt-and-punt-gun/page__gopid__1871288&do=findComment&comment=1871288 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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