brettguise Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hello all, ive been looking and researching a possible gun dog addition. I've really got into shotgun shooting now and want something to retrieve the shot birds and a well behaved companion to accompany me on shooting trips. I have decided that I would like a labrador. I am making sure that I am not making any wrong decisions so I am doing as much research as possible. I have two dogs, a Jack Russell that we had at 12 months now about 16 months old that has basic obedience but she's a terrier and will quite happily chase anything in site, along with our whippet that is 9 years old. Now id like to think that I could kennel the Labrador but it would be allowed in the house and be walked often just sleep and live in its kennel during the day. Would having two non working dogs around the Labrador effect its training as a puppy, would it be possible to kennel the Labrador with my Jack russell so they have a bit of a pack going on, would she pick up the bad habits from the Jack russell. I don't want to be cruel to the dog and don't really like the idea of kennelling the dog myself but I've been told it is the best way for a gun dog. Please advise on how best to arrange the Labrador around my two non working dogs and still get a good gun dog out of it. Also would the Labrador be able to be kennelled as a puppy to break them in quickly or introduce them as they get older. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 you can keep in the house its entirely up to you, with a lab many people do and have a perfectly respectable shooting companion. What it does need is plenty of time exercising and training on its own away from the other dogs, generally the more you do the better. As a first gundog a lab gives you the best chance of sucess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 So it can either be kennelled or housed that's good. If I go out for a few hours and leave the dogs in the back garden which is a good size they usually have the utility room with the door open and a run of the garden. Should I kennel the Labrador in the garden with a nice run even though the other dogs can see the Labrador and stand the other side of the run or keep them all together in the garden. Id exercise and train the dog away from the other dogs and on neutral ground more than likely. I haven't had a puppy before to mould to the dog I want it to be, both my dogs we housed after the owners had shaped very bad habits into them which we corrected to some degree but was never able to get a very obedient dog from either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 A lot of people on here have gun dogs that live in the house as a pet as well as a shooting companion. My springer pup has not been on a shoot yet but i am training her for a gundog and she lives in the house with my collie who is about a year older than her and so far havent had any problems with her picking up habits. I just train her separately away from the collie but still take them for walks together but she knows the difference and is a different dog when properly training compared to when we just go for a fun walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) I have a Terrier,Whippet x and a Lab. Both the terrier and whippet are pets, but the Lab is a gundog they mainly live together in the utility room, but the Lab is in the Kennel with run if nobody is at home. Normal walks are all together but all the training is done 1 to 1. I have had no problems with the fact that they all live together and my lab though still young is as good or better than most dogs i come across, i would say if the lab is from good working lines you shouldn't have anything to worry about, as long as your training is up to scratch. Edited August 23, 2012 by silver pigeon 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I have a Terrier,Whippet x and a Lab. Both the terrier and whippet are pets, but the Lab is a gundog they mainly live together in the utility room, but the Lab is in the Kennel with run if nobody is at home. Normal walks are all together but all the training is done 1 to 1. I have had no problems with the fact that they all live together and my lab though still young is as good or better than most dogs i come across, i would say if the lab is from good working lines you shouldn't have anything to worry about, as long as your training is up to scratch. That's pretty much the same situation then. I will do a lot of research on the training, a friend who has a lab gun dog will help me and I will probably get a good book to follow. Do you know any to suggest? Ill try get a Lab from the best background I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfieri Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ensure you buy from good stock and get a spend time looking for the right dog. Temperament has been everything with me in all the dogs I have had. If you get this right training will be considerably easier and you will enjoy your shooting ten fold. Any wildfowler will tell you its one of the best things about wildfowling is being out with your dogs on a morning or evening flight together sitting watching the world go by. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ensure you buy from good stock and get a spend time looking for the right dog. Temperament has been everything with me in all the dogs I have had. If you get this right training will be considerably easier and you will enjoy your shooting ten fold. Any wildfowler will tell you its one of the best things about wildfowling is being out with your dogs on a morning or evening flight together sitting watching the world go by. Good luck! Can you advise me on how best to chose the right temperament. I will pick a good breeder and will go to look at the puppies, I want a bitch so say there is three bitches. Do I just observe and see which one I think will be the best for me? Or do I look at the parents or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfieri Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 You have PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 The puppy chose me when i went to view them, he was straight over to me and was intent on eating my laces. I wanted a big bold dog and he was by far the boldest and was ranging out further from the litter. I went with a training guide by eric begbie http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gundog-Training-Goose-Hunter-Standard/dp/1409216101/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345738003&sr=1-6 It was good for me and very easy to follow for a first timer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve0146 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hi, I have a lurcher and a jack russell in the house and the lab in the kennel. She does come in but prefers it outside. She comes on all the walks. The key is to make sure she knows the difference between playing and training. Also be very careful what they can get up to while playing together. Mine is completely whistle trained so can stop her chasing when the lurcher goes off and have to keep on top of her when the terrier brings a stick over for tug of war. As for training, I used the Eric Begbie book also and drew up a training plan from it. It seemed to work for me. Also dont be afraid to ask for help if you get stuck with something. I used a professional a few times to help me get over stumbling blocks and at around £20 an hour, well worth it, instead of the hours of frustration. When chosing a pup, try to see the parents and make sure they come from working or trialling lines. Above all, they must be hip and eye tested. Pick the one that suits your personality. Just my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenntiger Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 HI when you are considering buying a puppy make sure the parents both have hips and eye scores. buy from a reputable breeder picking a puppy is not hard 9 times out of 10 the puppy will pick you. when you take your puppy home introduce to the family you can keep it in the house best to keep it in a cage at night. slowly wean it outside and that should be its home for the rest of its life.its a gundog first and a pet second it must concentrate on you and its training without any distractions onces its training is done then you can start introduce it back into the house i hope you pick the right puppy and have lots of fun training it. atb ps i disagree with anybody who go,s shooting without a dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 With regard to training, go and see a professional trainer BEFORE you start training and use them regularly throughout the training. Initially it will teach YOU what to do and just as importantly, what not to do. It's as much about training the trainer. The regular check ups will allow any bad habits either of you may develop to be identified and rectified and additionally you will get another slant on how to overcome the inevitable obstacles. Best of luck, with the correct, quality, training and plenty of time and patience, I'm sure you'll end up with a cracking gundog and companion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 if you have children lay down the law, they are not to tease it or rag it, socialise with yes, training starts from day one, only really simple stuff like choosing your whistle at feeding times, also a good idea is to sit down with the children and the missus or girlfriend and writing out the words of command you will use and post it on the fridge door, so everybody uses the same command.....dont over exersise the dog when young, let it grow and develope its bones and put on substance...you only get out what you put in ! dont give it any chewy toys, and make training fun, you only need to train 10 mins every day...the boys have posted good advice....my book that i used on my first gundog and eversince was P.R.A. Moxon...it is still in print. always remember every dog is different, if you have trouble getting the dog to do something, dont get tough with it try a different approach......training a dog is a 2 way thing you both learn ! good luck and enjoy yourselves ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosebank22 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hi Brett I was in a similar situation to you except i took up shooting about the same time I got my lab. The guys are definately right above when it comes to the lines that you choose the lab from, having said that temperment is just as important in my opinion as my dog's sister will not retrieve at all - too much of a princess. they are both from working backgrounds with FTCHs in it but mine is very eager to retrieve the other not a jot! My lab lives indoors and is trained in the back garden and on the moor, beach whereever we normally go. It is important though to separate training and play, but build the puppy up with little retrieves like socks from the beginning and make a lot of fuss over it when it returns and they will get the idea that bringing things to you gets them your attention and praise I have loved researching training my Lab and have read books, borrowed some too and got the Mullenscote gundog training DVDs, i found them really useful to reference areas one at a time and watch what they were doing - i learn easier that way. But get out there and speak to people, there may be tricks they have learnt and would help by no means am i an expert.. far from it, but as a beginner shooter and trainer i would have to say that the main thing is to enjoy the training, enjoy your dog and dont get worried if you dont seem to be getting anywhere - every little helps Mongrel is right it is about training the trainer. I have gone to a trainer to put me in the right direction and chatting to my shooting mate who has 3 spaniels put me back on the right track quite a few times. Best of luck, dont be worried to try and ask for help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve0146 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Oh.. two other things I would add. Make sure you house train it. Mine will not go in the kennel and waits for her walk. This is simply down to starting the first 6 months living in the house and learning a routine. As mentioned, every dog is different....as long as yours does what you want, dont get caught up in the whole ' at 6 months my dog was retrieveing geese' rubbish. Too many people try to impress and it normally a load of rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted August 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Thanks for all your advice. I have started to price up the kennel and decide the time to purchase the dog, I am off to the Midland Game Fair in september so dont know if that would be a good place to source a pup from. I know Im looking for a good health score on hips eyes etc but how about the breed of dog. Do I look for as many FTCH as possible I have read that the dog is very lively from this background, do I just look for good working parents with a nice temperament over 70 FTCH in the pedigree and bla bla bla. Could anyone recommend the best place to look for the right pup for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosebank22 Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 where are you base Brett? i would chose the dog on a combination of FTCH and temperment - i was lucky i know the farming family i got my lab from and had chosen to have a pup from them before she ever got mated. as for breed of dog, that kind of depends on what you want to use it for. Labs dont have thick coats unless kennelled outside, and then not as thick as a springer in the same kennel, so going through brambles etc all the time hunting would be an ask in my opinion. If you want a peg dog, go for a lab with a nice even temperment. steadiness can be taught so dont worry about lively pups. i know of people that have taken pet line labs and trained it to pick up with them on a rough shoot so there is so much choice im afraid mate. my missus chose our dog because it was the first that came to her - that is a sign of a bold dog as said above, some people prefer the one at the back as it might be more biddable. The main thing is to be happy with the dog you have chosen as if you dont like it when you pick it, chances are you wont create the bond needed to have a good gundog. i have had a shooting mate tell me and teach me much of the above and have learnt some it from experience, Maybe go see the pups from several litters and see which you prefer and the breeders too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Once again i would approach your local trainers. Tell them what you want and they will probably be able to point you in the right direction for breeders. Personally I'd be looking for working parents with ideally a few FTCh in the line, full on trials dogs can be a bit hyper for the field/marsh. Often though they have dogs that they consider aren't quite 'hot' enough for trials and as such they sell them on...but they may well be brilliant field dogs. Edited August 24, 2012 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenntiger Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 i bet your head is going dizzy with all this advice. just find your local gundog breeders and buy from them read gundog books and watch dvd,s a good one is stan harvey who was captian of the england gondog team also join a gundog club and as long as you have got it in you you wont go far wrong atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettguise Posted August 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 Im from the Midlands near Stourbridge if that helps. Yes my head is swimming but I've had lots of advise and I thank you all a lot. Now I need to make the kennel and run! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 Hello all, ive been looking and researching a possible gun dog addition. I've really got into shotgun shooting now and want something to retrieve the shot birds and a well behaved companion to accompany me on shooting trips. I have decided that I would like a labrador. I am making sure that I am not making any wrong decisions so I am doing as much research as possible. I have two dogs, a Jack Russell that we had at 12 months now about 16 months old that has basic obedience but she's a terrier and will quite happily chase anything in site, along with our whippet that is 9 years old. Now id like to think that I could kennel the Labrador but it would be allowed in the house and be walked often just sleep and live in its kennel during the day. Would having two non working dogs around the Labrador effect its training as a puppy, would it be possible to kennel the Labrador with my Jack russell so they have a bit of a pack going on, would she pick up the bad habits from the Jack russell. I don't want to be cruel to the dog and don't really like the idea of kennelling the dog myself but I've been told it is the best way for a gun dog. Please advise on how best to arrange the Labrador around my two non working dogs and still get a good gun dog out of it. Also would the Labrador be able to be kennelled as a puppy to break them in quickly or introduce them as they get older. Thanks. Keep it with the others as norm. If your not out on the marsh etc then keeping in the house might be a good option. Just train it sepparate and dont let it get away with anything, once its told and understands it must do no exception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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