Cranfield Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I live in the country and obviously the human population is much less than in towns, it also follows that so is the cat population. Whilst cats may have an impact on wildlife in high density human/cat populated areas, they have a minimum effect in the country. Any losses here (and I don't think there are many) are mainly due to habitat loss, pesticides, farming practices, the increase in the raptor population and the general magpie problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Joking aside, I agree with game keeper cat owners should take resposibility for there animals, ATB Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Another thing to consider, especially up here, is their interbreeding with wildcats and the dilution of their genes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Another thing to consider, especially up here, is their interbreeding with wildcats and the dilution of their genes. Good piont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Another thing to consider, especially up here, is their interbreeding with wildcats and the dilution of their genes. Yeah man agreed around wildcat populations they should be tightly monitored and controlled. Rather unique to certain areas though. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 once you get out in the country cats are a minor issue especially on estates with a proper Gamekeeper, what is interesting really is the difference in small bird populations between estates run for shooting and those that aren't. Some of the newer cover crops are fantastic for them, add to that proper predator control and you see it makes a large difference. Add to that the fact that the well run shooting estates have decent hedges etc and farming is well and truly beneficial for songbirds. We have cats about round houses and we also get the odd feral one miles from them, one things for sure you can tell the difference as some of the ferals are huge. And there you have the problem with the crackpot idea of muzzling cats you take their main defence away, and also add something likely to get caught when jumping out of trees and over fences, it simply isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I, m deadly serious i aint PUSSY FOOTING AROUND, but let me PAWS for thought on the topic for a moment ha ha, still lmao I'll get my coat , can some one start the car!!!!!!!! ATB flynny As they say "sarcam is the lowest form of wit" and sorry to disapoint by I dont smoke ! and yes I know walcott very well I infact live just a couple of mile away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 once you get out in the country cats are a minor issue especially on estates with a proper Gamekeeper, what is interesting really is the difference in small bird populations between estates run for shooting and those that aren't. Some of the newer cover crops are fantastic for them, add to that proper predator control and you see it makes a large difference. Add to that the fact that the well run shooting estates have decent hedges etc and farming is well and truly beneficial for songbirds. We have cats about round houses and we also get the odd feral one miles from them, one things for sure you can tell the difference as some of the ferals are huge. And there you have the problem with the crackpot idea of muzzling cats you take their main defence away, and also add something likely to get caught when jumping out of trees and over fences, it simply isn't going to happen. I totally agree with about shooting estates.! but even in the countryside birds are drawn to houses where they are being fed at that is were part of problem starts. Your modern farm machines leave very little behind in the way they used to,and very little land is left untouched for any length of time in order for birds to glean so birds head to houses for an easy meal and who can blame them, ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 you've not seen the amount of cover crops round this way with a lot of small grains specifically for the small birds. Thats before you go into wheat that keepers put down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 you've not seen the amount of cover crops round this way with a lot of small grains specifically for the small birds. Thats before you go into wheat that keepers put down. Yes but thats on a shooting estate ! not all of norfolk is shot over mores the pity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yes but thats on a shooting estate ! not all of norfolk is shot over mores the pity No its got a good number of reserves harboring rare breeding birds, including cettis warbler, bearded tit, dartford warbler to name bit a few. Migration causes rises and falls in say robin numbers more so in counties like Norfolk than more central counties. Norfolk is some what of a mecca for the rarer birds in this country. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Its called freedom of speach ! and freedom of thought ! its what sepperate us from the animals I thought that it was opposable thumbs. And spell checkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) No its got a good number of reserves harboring rare breeding birds, including cettis warbler, bearded tit, dartford warbler to name bit a few. Migration causes rises and falls in say robin numbers more so in counties like Norfolk than more central counties. Norfolk is some what of a mecca for the rarer birds in this country. Karpman Then obviously we have more to loss and therefor more to be worried about Edited August 30, 2012 by gamekeeper1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) However…. Most of the wild bird (and bat) reduction is due to habitats being removed rather than cats killing them. This is exactly what a mate of mine (who is a cat lover) said whan i confronted him about the amount of wild birds killed by domestic cats every year, it must be the standard cat lovers answer when confronted with this fact. TB. Edited August 30, 2012 by Vermincinerator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Another thing to consider, especially up here, is their interbreeding with wildcats and the dilution of their genes. Yep. Wild cats are very low in number at the moment, so breeding with pet cats will not help matters. This is exactly what a mate of mine (who is a cat lover) said whan i confronted him about the amount of wild birds killed by domestic cats every year, it must be the standard cat lovers answer when confronted with this fact. TB. Exactly. Some cat owners seem to think that the problems caused by habitat loss somehow excuse the problems caused by their cats. Habitat loss is no excuse to ignore the other problems, we should focus on all of them, including cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Can't find the exact same figure, but I did find this: "That impact has been much discussed in conservation circles over the past decade, certainly since a report published by the Mammal Society in 2003 concluded that British cats had taken an estimated 92 million prey items over a five-month period. When the researchers factored in kills that had not been ‘returned’ (brought back to the cat’s owner), it was extrapolated that the overall tally could be as high as 275 million individual animals every year." For more information, click here. So according to the article the true figure is 275 million. Or 45 million. Or 150 million. And that is mammals and birds not birds only as originally stated. And some of these figures are extrapolation from an extremely small sample size, geographically limited study. The author of which does not believe that any extrapolation can be accurate. And who admits that whatever the numbers are, the impact on mammal population is difficult or impossible to conclude. And the highest number is promoted by a body with a vested interest in reporting a high number. So, the real, honest answer to the question "are domestic cats responsible for a general decline in UK songbird population?" is "We don't know" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) So according to the article the true figure is 275 million. Or 45 million. Or 150 million. And that is mammals and birds not birds only as originally stated. And some of these figures are extrapolation from an extremely small sample size, geographically limited study. The author of which does not believe that any extrapolation can be accurate. And who admits that whatever the numbers are, the impact on mammal population is difficult or impossible to conclude. And the highest number is promoted by a body with a vested interest in reporting a high number. So, the real, honest answer to the question "are domestic cats responsible for a general decline in UK songbird population?" is "We don't know" so what do you think we should do ? Edited August 30, 2012 by gamekeeper1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Straight from the Rspb website. "It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season" Hmmm Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 so what do you think we should do ? Either something or nothing, depending on what the facts are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Either something or nothing, depending on what the facts are. Or just bury your heads and make out its never going to happen ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Or just bury your heads and make out its never going to happen ! That is certainly an option I will consider, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootnfish Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 a couple of months ago my motheringlaw told me when came home from work she saw a cat from a couple of doors down ontop of a nest box in her garden hooking out the nearly fledged bluetits through the hole poxy thing had killed them all. atleast sparrow hawks , magpies kill because they need to. commonsense should tell you cats have an impact on gardenbird populations. you dont exact figures to know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted September 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I would just like to thank everyone who took part in this debate we at least got to page 7 without it being locked down ! see you can have a thread about cats ! who said it could'nt be done ? cheers chaps. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I would just like to thank everyone who took part in this debate we at least got to page 7 without it being locked down ! see you can have a thread about cats ! who said it could'nt be done ? cheers chaps. Dave. Enjoyed it thanks mate. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPUK Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 ha ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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