Jeremy Vine show, put shooting mags on top shelf

[wymberley]

Would it be potentially beneficial for the likes of BASC and the Countryside Alliance to run regional media relations courses that are free to attend for members?

 

Shooters could definitely do with some lessons in the BS that the lefty loonies seem so well versed in!

 

That would be what BASC does best - re-inventing the wheel.

 

Sounds very much like HFO - Honorary Field Officer to me.

[WoodyPopper]

I didn't hear the Jeremy Vine show but I did catch the Lost Guns piece on Radio 4. I was very surprised at the number of guns lost or stolen each year (3000 ish). If I were an unbiased listener, I wouldn't have been comforted by the statistic that this is only a very tiny proportion of the total guns legally held. And, I'd have sided with the woman from Gun Control Network rather than Bill Harriman. He didn't seem to be on his usual good form. Mind you, I wouldn't have wanted to be in his position either. I'd have been surprised to hear that so many guns are stolen each year. The news that this figure also includes lost guns beggars belief. I think we were very lucky that they also had the guy from ACPO (Andy Marsh I think). He flatly contradicted the GCN woman's claim that most gun crime is committed with legally held guns, and generally gave the impression of being on the side of responsible shooters. Though I wish someone would make clear that statistics on Gun Crime include all sorts of administrative offences such as failure to renew a licence on time. Joe Public can't be blamed for thinking that Gun Crime simply means bank robbery and drive-by shootings etc.

If the number of lost/stolen guns is correct (and neither ACPO or BASC seemed to query them) then that's worrying.

[robadob]

The ‘top shelf’ issue is an attack by Animal Aid, and unlikely to go anywhere but of course we will keep an eye on it. There is no will in parliament at all to move shooting mags to the top shelf.

 

David

 

There maybe nothing in parliment intrest but it will be on the shop floor so to speak that needs to be looked at, as the pressure that these groups put direct on highstreet shops etc by protesting outside said shops, as they are calling for all their members etc to do will be where damage will be done, as WH Smiths etc will say lets just move the mags up by a shelve or two & get these lot off our doorstep, they get what they want & the perception is that they were right.

 

The other issue seems to be that on these debates it gets turned into killing animals for fun, yet the debate is about moving SHOOTING magazines, therefore all forms of shooting, target, clay, etc, etc NOT ONLY game & pest control this should be more of the focus, thus exposing the flaws in their argument, there is indeed other publications that would require moving before shooting magazines, games magazines for example (yes i do play on the old xbox myself so there ;o) ) which use soft porn & violence to promote games to kids including age restricted material.

 

As said beaware BASC, CA, etc this will happen on the street not in meeting rooms, its PUBLIC opion that counts not MPs or corprate

[onefulham]

I totally agree with the post above, these people don't even have to get the mags top shelved, just keep giving the impression shooting is always bad, we have facts on our side but it is not always the truth that counts, just what people perceive to be the truth, look how many people after every gang shooting think pistols should be banned ??!!

[scobydog]

Just listened to it, animal aid guy sounds a sounds a bit snivelling, thought he was going to cry at 1 point, ukip guy came across as a right berk ,he is the sort of person who gives the genuine shooting person a bad name. The point should have been made that we are taking part in a legal,strictly controlled sport, and in the case of clay pigeon shooting 1 of the fastest growing sports in Britain. Instead we got some idiot, who sounded like the sort of person i would not want shooting anywhere near me. Rant over

[scobydog]

Forgot to mention, was on some news site yesterday which commented on the stolen/lost guns and it had a picture of a hand holding a pistol !!!!

[Blackpowder]

These issues would be much better dealt with from the legimate shooters view if comments were made by people such as former miners, or workers in any other heavy industry. Lets destroy the myth put around by the antis that shooting is for the wealthy and privileged, bring on the Geordies, the Scoucers the braid Scots and inform the public that the keenest shooters are drawn from manual workers who attended the local comp. rather than a posh public school.

 

Blackpowder

[PhilR]

I suspect this recent anti gun publicity upsurge is to counter the good publicity of Peter Wilson's Olympic gold medal, that must stick in the craw of all the gun haters.

[onefulham]

Some great points being made here and I agree with all of the above, but why does it feel to me we are slowly losing the argument with the general public ?

I particularly like the above comment that the majority of shooters are ordinary regional working people, like it or not a lot of the arguments made against shooting is class based, I do not know the figures but I bet there are more pigeon and wildfowl shooters than paid driven shooters, I bet clay shooters outnumber game shooters as well, also I feel the farming and industrial need for pest control is not being made strongly enough.

[Drayman]

I think it's clear from the Vine show that the UKIP idiot Godfrey Bloom (they probably chose him because of the name as Bill Smith would have been too working class) and David Taylor of the CA need to go on a media training refresher. They either committed, or walked in to, every "don't do that" in the book. They also demonstrated their inability to deal with the opposition to shooting. That comes from either a lack of knowledge or a lack of ability - in either case they shouldn't be speaking on our behalf. I just hope the BASC folks have done more than the media training course. Otherwise, we are in deep poo!

 

As mentioned above, the public face of shooting is generally splashed across the front page of the Daily Mail. The real face of shooting is not something the average punter either wants to hear about or read about, so don't be at all surprised if they have a biased, if poorly informed, point of view. It really comes down to understanding the "need" for guns. Pest control is easy to justify with numbers, as is clay shooting. But add in game shoots and it becomes more difficult. You can try adding in number of jobs, wildlife diversity on grouse moors etc. but you still end up with the problem of raising a sentient being to be shot for pleasure. It may be considered a right, it may have some secondary added value, but it is difficult to justify as a need. (I fish as well as shoot but I still can't find a good reason to pull a fish out of the water with a hook to look at it and then put it back - but I still, and will continue, to do it - just don't ask me to why).

You also have to remember (unlike Godfrey Bloom) that people have a right to their opinions. Telling them they are wrong is just stupid. Helping them understand is the way forward. I know people close to me who don't like guns (they are not anti-gun) but happily accept most forms of shooting (clay, food, pest control) but can't rationalise game shooting. I shared all the information with them in good discussions, but they have the right to disagree. Put simply, they don't want to see birds raised for sport. Such is their right to a free opinion.

So back to the original topic of "top shelf publications". A good day on pigeons is something I would like to share and be quite pleased about. The question is, does a picture of a couple of hundred dead birds sitting on the middle shelf of WH Smiths really do anything for our position as responsible gun owners. We all know the damage the pigeons have done, and would continue to do. How many mums and kids going through Smiths have seen the amount of peas in one pigeon crop - answer, probably less than 0.000%, yet they all want cheap food. I don't think gun magazines should be moved anywhere, but this might just be an alert to say "what are we really saying to the non-shooting public as they go about their normal shopping day". After all, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[guest1957]

I think it's clear from the Vine show that the UKIP idiot Godfrey Bloom (they probably chose him because of the name as Bill Smith would have been too working class) and David Taylor of the CA need to go on a media training refresher. They either committed, or walked in to, every "don't do that" in the book. They also demonstrated their inability to deal with the opposition to shooting. That comes from either a lack of knowledge or a lack of ability - in either case they shouldn't be speaking on our behalf. I just hope the BASC folks have done more than the media training course. Otherwise, we are in deep poo!

 

As mentioned above, the public face of shooting is generally splashed across the front page of the Daily Mail. The real face of shooting is not something the average punter either wants to hear about or read about, so don't be at all surprised if they have a biased, if poorly informed, point of view. It really comes down to understanding the "need" for guns. Pest control is easy to justify with numbers, as is clay shooting. But add in game shoots and it becomes more difficult. You can try adding in number of jobs, wildlife diversity on grouse moors etc. but you still end up with the problem of raising a sentient being to be shot for pleasure. It may be considered a right, it may have some secondary added value, but it is difficult to justify as a need. (I fish as well as shoot but I still can't find a good reason to pull a fish out of the water with a hook to look at it and then put it back - but I still, and will continue, to do it - just don't ask me to why).

You also have to remember (unlike Godfrey Bloom) that people have a right to their opinions. Telling them they are wrong is just stupid. Helping them understand is the way forward. I know people close to me who don't like guns (they are not anti-gun) but happily accept most forms of shooting (clay, food, pest control) but can't rationalise game shooting. I shared all the information with them in good discussions, but they have the right to disagree. Put simply, they don't want to see birds raised for sport. Such is their right to a free opinion.

So back to the original topic of "top shelf publications". A good day on pigeons is something I would like to share and be quite pleased about. The question is, does a picture of a couple of hundred dead birds sitting on the middle shelf of WH Smiths really do anything for our position as responsible gun owners. We all know the damage the pigeons have done, and would continue to do. How many mums and kids going through Smiths have seen the amount of peas in one pigeon crop - answer, probably less than 0.000%, yet they all want cheap food. I don't think gun magazines should be moved anywhere, but this might just be an alert to say "what are we really saying to the non-shooting public as they go about their normal shopping day". After all, a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

I have met Godfrey Bloom on multiple occasions and the BBC will be well aware that any good points he makes tend to become buried in angry rhetoric. He was not an appropriate choice for the interview, but is a great self-publicist and as a result will attend anything or be interviewed at the opening of the proverbial envelope.

[Reece]

Thought I would post this, from someone who has some common sense:

 

http://blogs.telegra...-shooting-porn/

 

I urge PW members to post a comment or two.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Reece

[Scully]

The one from 'remittance man' is superb!

[Full Pelt]

Never underestimate the antis. There was an idea a while ago, in the interest of openess and 'public safety' to make public the address of license holders via a register or whatever. The 'animal rights' movement in this country has a long history of criminality and violence including having its members jailed for serious offences including blackmail and arson ; no responsible gun owner would want his or her personal details made available to such people.

There's a real tide of sentiment swirling in public around the cruelty and caring debate to the extent that some animal charities (typically the ones that operate as unlicensed pet shops) no longer handle donated fishing rods and tackle, can you believe it ?

[poontang]

I didn't hear the Jeremy Vine show but I did catch the Lost Guns piece on Radio 4. I was very surprised at the number of guns lost or stolen each year (3000 ish). If I were an unbiased listener, I wouldn't have been comforted by the statistic that this is only a very tiny proportion of the total guns legally held. And, I'd have sided with the woman from Gun Control Network rather than Bill Harriman.

 

The figures are actually just under 3,000 guns lost/stolen over FIVE years.

 

About 11 guns a week.

[guest1957]

Thought I would post this, from someone who has some common sense:

 

http://blogs.telegra...-shooting-porn/

 

I urge PW members to post a comment or two.

 

One of the 'anti' posters is actively defaming the Countryside Alliance, and as such I have reported those comments.

 

Generally the 'antis' seem to be losing the debate which can only be a good thing.

[Reece]

Never underestimate the antis. There was an idea a while ago, in the interest of openess and 'public safety' to make public the address of license holders via a register or whatever. The 'animal rights' movement in this country has a long history of criminality and violence including having its members jailed for serious offences including blackmail and arson ; no responsible gun owner would want his or her personal details made available to such people.

 

There's a real tide of sentiment swirling in public around the cruelty and caring debate to the extent that some animal charities (typically the ones that operate as unlicensed pet shops) no longer handle donated fishing rods and tackle, can you believe it ?

 

 

There is this thing called the Animal Liberation Front. Not technically an organisation, but their supporters do all sorts, including vandalism/arson. They have been labelled a terrorist organisation. I agree with that.

[Blackpowder]

There is this thing called the Animal Liberation Front. Not technically an organisation, but their supporters do all sorts, including vandalism/arson. They have been labelled a terrorist organisation. I agree with that.

Good so we can now say that while anti shooting bodies have been classed as terrorists, no such title could be applied to bona fide licensed firearm and gun ownwers in Great Britain.

 

Blackpowder

[Richard V]

Vine has had a few anti gun shooting programmes in the past so he appears to be very biased. I want my license fee back.

Martin

 

Here you go matey advice on going legally licence free

 

http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/

[-Mongrel-]

I'm sorry, but in my limited time shooting we seem to be have been losing ground in the general publics opinion of us.

 

 

I'm afraid that I don't feel that any of the shooting organisations are currently anywhere near active or vocal enough. It may be just another 'anti' crank, but little by little, chip by chip, they are whittling away at our image. I say again that the shooting organisations need to be more aggressively pro-active to try and improve our position so that we aren't always fighting ff the back foot.

[Reece]

I'm sorry, but in my limited time shooting we seem to be have been losing ground in the general publics opinion of us.

 

 

I'm afraid that I don't feel that any of the shooting organisations are currently anywhere near active or vocal enough. It may be just another 'anti' crank, but little by little, chip by chip, they are whittling away at our image. I say again that the shooting organisations need to be more aggressively pro-active to try and improve our position so that we aren't always fighting ff the back foot.

 

I agree with you on that. In the meantime, until the shooting organisations start becoming more proactive, which could well be too late, shooters should do it themselves - responding to articles and letters in newspapers, etc. Until BASC, CA, etc start to adopt a more proactive approach, it is down to the shooters to do what they can.