al4x Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 There has been a bit posted on here of Muntjac being easy to knock over with .22cf's last night I saw something I wouldn't have believed. I wasn't shooting but with a mate who was out for a buck prior to going foxing, sitting out as it got towards last light and one started walking towards us across rape stubble. Due to a road and house we had to wait an age for a safe shot which in the end was at about 60 yards and right on last light. Shot sounded slightly odd but like a hit but this buck belted off straight into the nearest block of maize cover. The thought of oh **** sprang to mind but we gave it a few minutes before doing anything as it was fairly close to a road and the idea was to let it bleed out and die without going any further. Fortunately the dog was with us who is usually there for locating foxes at night on stubble and though she has been with me deer shooting I've never had one run like this so she has just been from the strike a few yards to the deer. So because of the road she was on the lead with as much freedom as possible then to near where I thought the strike was, close but she soon found it and proceeded to drag me into the cover crop and then up it and all of 20 seconds after the start she was on a very dead muntjac. All good and it would have been a nightmare had she not been there this is where it gets strange, deer is there large hole in either side of the ribcage large enough that the rumen is hanging out as are a load of intestines on both sides. A fast gralloch and the heart was completely mashed how it ran is beyond me. With the damage being a lesson on the use of fast ballistic tips it also was a very good reminder of how useful a dog is. Went on to lamp round that farm and onto another where the first gateway a fox was way out, dropped to my first shot and we went to look for it didn't find it immediately so got out of the truck and was about to get the dog when I had the whisper get back quick there is another there, that had come to the first call and ignored the shot. A little more calling and it was interested but not coming in properly so I had it lit up and dropped that. Dog out again and the first was a lot further out than we looked and a big boy and the second a similar distance out so both around the 180 yard mark so well happy with that. All in all a good night but an eye opener on the munty as I'd not seen one go like that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Deer can run a long way looking like they are missed for all the world, i have mashed the heart and smashed the oposite shoulder/leg and they have still gone a fair way at times (on examination you would not think movement was even possible). Big calibres and small, depends on adrenalin levels- it might have been aware of you, perhaps the dog or could have just been spooked by a car etc, often the second shot beast in a pair runs a long way i remember looking quite a while for a Roe doe that disapeared uphill leaving no bloodtrial as a result of the blood pooling behind the diaphram. Just expect them to run, mentally mark the piont the shot was delivered and the point it enters cover, if you dont find any paint or pins etc at the impact point think twice about messing up the scent trail especially if you check all the way to cover. Sometimes you dont get blood until they cross a fence etc then its like buckets of the stuff though so always check these points were possible on the landing side. Human scent is very strong to a dog though so dont polute what little they (dogs) have to go on by tramping about all over, you can easy miss blood etc and re-locate it on the soles of your shoes cofusing the trial. Dabbing the area you think the shot connected with white paper towels often reveals blood that cannot be seen BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 The only thing that I can think of is it was on high alert as it was out in the open, the wind was right and the dog in the truck so those shouldn't have been a factor. Its funny in a way that nothing would have stopped this running caliber wise as it would have been hard to do much more damage. You have all the .243 arguments rolled together, deer running with massive damage dead but it just didn't know it. Bullet choice was poor but that only affected the carcass rather than the run, anywhere else i'd have just chucked the dog out and let it work but the road proximity I didn't want her crossing on the trail. Its great watching them work the later foxes large stubble field she will just quarter till she picks up the trail then homes in at full pelt and descends on them, ever hopeful there will be some life left. When range can be deceptive and stubble has been cut high this year it makes finding them so much easier. Unless you keep the lamp on the shot site you easily loose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southdowns_stalking Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Hi Al4x, Its the normal reaction for a deer with a heart/lung shot to run like this. Have a look at John's video below and you will see..... Regards, SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 The only thing that I can think of is it was on high alert as it was out in the open, the wind was right and the dog in the truck so those shouldn't have been a factor. Its funny in a way that nothing would have stopped this running caliber wise as it would have been hard to do much more damage. You have all the .243 arguments rolled together, deer running with massive damage dead but it just didn't know it. Bullet choice was poor but that only affected the carcass rather than the run, anywhere else i'd have just chucked the dog out and let it work but the road proximity I didn't want her crossing on the trail. Its great watching them work the later foxes large stubble field she will just quarter till she picks up the trail then homes in at full pelt and descends on them, ever hopeful there will be some life left. When range can be deceptive and stubble has been cut high this year it makes finding them so much easier. Unless you keep the lamp on the shot site you easily loose it. Heart and lung shots dont kill until the brain runs out of oxegen. The lungs oxegenate the blood and the heart gets the blood to the brain. One would think brain shots more humane but the brain is small and difficult to locate in a very moveable box. if the deer is dead relaxed they tend to go down very quick - but just dont expect it. Foxes tend to go down a lot quicker from boiler room shots but not always it has to be said. Keep your placements as is and don't start alternative placement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Oh I've seen them run but not usually looking like they haven't been hit with the level of damage this one had. Especially when you bear in mind the size of a muntjac I've shot a fair few and had them go a few yards but not accelerate to full pelt and look uninjured. Then to find heart obliterated various holes in the chest cavity and most of the rumen and intestines hanging outside the body. It's the sort of hit usually drops them on the spot rather than lets them do 50 yards or so at full pelt. The shooter was most bemused but I can safely say even had he been using his 308 he wouldn't have put it down faster, it's strange when it happens I had a heart shot cub run 15 yards or so the other week that left a blood trail close on a foot wide. Yet others will just drop lights out its one of natures vagaries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 With Muntjac, i have shot a few with standard chest shots and they can sometimes move a little way, however i prefer to pin them through the shoulders, then they find it impossible to run as they don't have functional front legs. Ballistic Tips and deer.... Ive learnt THAT lesson, soft points are the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Not getting into the bullet choice area, but I`ve had similar with roe and agree with the guys above. Never had 2x big holes, but sometimes when looking from inside you can see where the bullet brushed a rib on entry and the bullet must have turned almost side on and gone at a slightly different angle making a large hole on the other side with various bits of innards also exiting out of the hole, not nice but it does happen (for both my triple and 6.5). Hope nothing like that happens tonight as I`m off out after a couple of stags and don`t fancy a long drag out of thick cover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 The funny thing is hd that bullet choice in my mind should have stopped it running. I think it was the 4th munty to that load and bullet and the other results were nothing like it, to have a hole large enough for the rumen to fall out says a bit. I have had fallow fall over with a similar load so it may be a freak occurrence sure makes you wonder though when they set off at full speed for the thickest cover they can find. Still the dog was the main saviour and I have to say given her way she would have retrieved this one so a tad different to your reds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 With Muntjac, i have shot a few with standard chest shots and they can sometimes move a little way, however i prefer to pin them through the shoulders, then they find it impossible to run as they don't have functional front legs. Ballistic Tips and deer.... Ive learnt THAT lesson, soft points are the way forward. Btip or soft point is not representative of actual bullet performance, Big game bullets often have balistic tips and high fragmenting varmint bullet soft exposed lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Oh I've seen them run but not usually looking like they haven't been hit with the level of damage this one had. Especially when you bear in mind the size of a muntjac I've shot a fair few and had them go a few yards but not accelerate to full pelt and look uninjured. Then to find heart obliterated various holes in the chest cavity and most of the rumen and intestines hanging outside the body. It's the sort of hit usually drops them on the spot rather than lets them do 50 yards or so at full pelt. The shooter was most bemused but I can safely say even had he been using his 308 he wouldn't have put it down faster, it's strange when it happens I had a heart shot cub run 15 yards or so the other week that left a blood trail close on a foot wide. Yet others will just drop lights out its one of natures vagaries Ah, but usually does not mean always. It wont be the last time you see this sort of thing by a long chalk. Its grizzly but i dont think they actually suffer due to severe shock and it aint long before the brain tells the body its dead. You seriously wonder how some of them move at all i know but it didn't take so long to cover that 50yds did it now- thats the flight resonse in action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I think the surprising bit considering I've seen the usual roe make it a dozen yards etc was that it was one that was hit as hard as you could ever hit one, then it took off like it wasn't hit. In a way it was nice to be a spectator as the shooter was bemused, In a way it was great from my point of view as it got the dog a bit of practice where it excelled and a mate who was rather glad of her presence as it would have been a torchlight search otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mereside Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 i shot a munty last year from a highseat with my 270 with a 130 grain bullet it gave a good reaction but to my disbelief it ran out of sight . i waited a while and climbed down leaving my friend up the seat in case it ran on so he could watch when i got to the stike the bullet had performed a perfect gralloch and the little blighter had run without its organs when i got to the place i last saw it there it was stone dead . it amazed me how far it ran without a heart and lung ,these animals do amazing things after being shot , atb wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Shot Red's through the heart they run 100 yards like they haven't been, Munty at almost point blank knocked over and get up and run. Shooting is killing by blood loss, it's not instant. The animal will still have oxygen in the blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldfish Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Whether you are looking at hydrostatic shock, hypovolemic shock or sudden death, its all variable and down to the individual deer. I have shot fallow with a .243 which have dropped like they have been poleaxed but I have also shot fallow in the same spot with a .30 cal and had to retrieve bodies 60 yards into the woods due to them running off. If you go to NZ you can shoot the same with .223s! What ever you use, do what you can to take a shot you are confident in and look/listen for the strike and ensure you have the time and means to search for the shot deer. Edited September 8, 2012 by Goldfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulboy1957 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 It happens,took a perfect heart shot at 30 yards on a muntjac buck last year with .243 ,100g Norma ... It stood for 5 secs shaking its tail,then ran 60 yards and was found dead leaning against a tree!. Other times they go straight over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 It is quite amazing how far a deer can run when hit hard in the engine room, I have found deer hit in the lower part of the lung and heart area manage to run more than those that have been hit in the top of the heart. This may have nothing to do with the shot but state of the deers adrenalin at the time but its what I have observed on quite a few occasions. Though the ideal situation is to put all of the energy into the vital organs with little bullet weight lose and no exit I prefer to shoot fallow and bigger with 308 and 150grain bullets. This will usually mean a decent exit and a good blood trail, especially in or near to woodland, making a deer much easier to find. Muntjac are very under estimated in regard to strength, especially bucks, they will sometimes run dead on their feet and due to their size can be hard to find,they have a pretty tough hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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