Kes Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I've seen the Savage and its pretty plastic (synthetic stock). I've heard others are attempting to modify a .22 hornet action to take.17 hornet - I've also heard CZ will make a .17 hornet and heard it denyed? Does anyone have any views on which may be best? For me it isnt the Savage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 NJC on here will be the guy to ask, he has the reamer and go gauge for the 17 hornet. as we speak he is using a cz 22hornet as the donor rifle and having a new barrle cut to suit in 17 hornet. from what im hearing he is willing to hire out the reamer and go gauge. as for other makes, its either Savage or savage at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 CZ have announced on their USA site that they intend to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 I think it is more than a little early to make any suggestion as to which model will/may be best. And just how do you qualify that anyway, an awful lot of people rate and awful lot of different guns as best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 I think it is more than a little early to make any suggestion as to which model will/may be best. And just how do you qualify that anyway, an awful lot of people rate and awful lot of different guns as best. Dekers - I've seen and handled the Savage and its machining tolerances are poor - the bolt lever moved in its fixing and there is a plastic cap over the end of the bolt which looks rather naff. I think you know when a gun is of sufficient quality to merit a trial - the Savage didnt and it costs an arm and a leg. Presumably this is because there's limited production, only one supplier and they are making hay. I am going to wait for the CZ - its an altogerther better gun but I would go custom if someone can supply them - any ideas? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillmouse Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 As an exercise in hyped up overhyping the launch of the ,17 Hornet is a classic example of sound over substance. I am afraid I don't think much to Savage rifles. Poor finish and tacky bits, sharp edges and a grating awkward action. The calibre is another fad and money spinning exercise trying to fill a niche that does not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Dekers - I've seen and handled the Savage and its machining tolerances are poor - the bolt lever moved in its fixing and there is a plastic cap over the end of the bolt which looks rather naff. I think you know when a gun is of sufficient quality to merit a trial - the Savage didnt and it costs an arm and a leg. Presumably this is because there's limited production, only one supplier and they are making hay. I am going to wait for the CZ - its an altogerther better gun but I would go custom if someone can supply them - any ideas? Cheers I found the Savage acceptable myself. Sure it's not up to the standard of the better makers but at just over £600 it isn't horribly expensive for what it is. I'm having a CZ custom built as we speak. The barrel shipped from Walther in Germany on Friday so I should think in a few weeks I will be able to give a better report. The fella making it is a very experienced gunsmith who isn't on the open radar - his work is good though and he carries out contracts for some of the well known English gunmakers. I'm looking at well under £1k for the whole build including a donor .22 Hornet action which I had already. If you would like to talk about it in more detail then drop me a PM. I'll have a word with the smith for you and put you in contact - you'd be most welcome to hire my reamer for a sensible price to save getting your own. Edited October 6, 2012 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Dekers - I've seen and handled the Savage and its machining tolerances are poor - the bolt lever moved in its fixing and there is a plastic cap over the end of the bolt which looks rather naff. I think you know when a gun is of sufficient quality to merit a trial - the Savage didnt and it costs an arm and a leg. Presumably this is because there's limited production, only one supplier and they are making hay. I am going to wait for the CZ - its an altogerther better gun but I would go custom if someone can supply them - any ideas? Cheers I'm no fan of savage field guns generally, but they make a living, one mans wife is another mans dog! ...and out of curiosity (and possibly a desire to liven this thread up) what is it about this largely untried calibre that has got you so excited and wanting to get hold of one as pretty much an unknown quantity. What job do you need it to do that there has been a gaping hole in your requirements for until this arrived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) I'm no fan of savage field guns generally, but they make a living, one mans wife is another mans dog! ...and out of curiosity (and possibly a desire to liven this thread up) what is it about this largely untried calibre that has got you so excited and wanting to get hold of one as pretty much an unknown quantity. What job do you need it to do that there has been a gaping hole in your requirements for until this arrived? I've wondered this as well. I can see the point of the .22 Hornet as an improvement on the HMR but the .17 version would seem to reintroduce many of the disadvantages of the HMR without extending the reach of the .22. In fact, to stir it up even more I can't see the point of .17 CF full stop, especially since the .204 Ruger came on the scene. Other than the entertainment value of high velocity I can see no real-world advantage over a more stable .22 CF, most of which are no slouches themselves. If you've got to have a .17 Hornet, and why not, each to their own - I just can't see the advantage over existing calibres - then surely njc110381 has the right idea: Get a decent proven .22 Hornet and rebarrel it. A rejuvenated Anschutz, Weihrauch or CZ... or a Savage. No contest. Edited October 7, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Dekers, you are so much like my dad! His question when I want something is "haven't you already got one that will do that?" or "what do you want that for?"... I think it's just a difference in the ways of the generations. How old are you out of interest? I may be wrong but older folk often see things with a more sensible view (along with a few younger ones who still look at life with a need rather than a want) whilst others tend to see what they like and just buy it. We don't have to have a reason, we just want to try it. I'm getting mine done because I saw the window open to factory made brass and a round similar to the .17AH, which I have to say was the best small game round I have ever owned by far. You think the HMR was novel when it came out... This thing completely smashes it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Ok, to explain why I have one on my ticket, I wont shoot fox with a .22 rimfire unless they come very close - how often does that happen when you are out on the rabbits? I have a .223 for fox which is v heavy (varmint) but superb off sticks if you want to take everything from 100yds to 300yds, usually about 200. What I dont have is a light rifle to carry, without effort which can do the job of the .223 at slightly reduced ranges and be economic enough to shoot any vermin I come across on my wanders. With that one calibre, reloading when its sensibly priced, I can shoot crows, rabbits, foxes anything basically from 50 yds to 250yds (smaller stuff) assuming its not blowing a gale and feel that the bullet is going to 'blow-up' if it hits virtually anything. I can carry it all day and just the one gun. I'd happily replace the .223 with a lighter gun but its too much gun for vermin, expensive and here is conditioned only for fox. It makes sense to me as it seems to push the .22 hornet out. Just MHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Dekers, you are so much like my dad! His question when I want something is "haven't you already got one that will do that?" or "what do you want that for?"... I think it's just a difference in the ways of the generations. How old are you out of interest? I may be wrong but older folk often see things with a more sensible view (along with a few younger ones who still look at life with a need rather than a want) whilst others tend to see what they like and just buy it. We don't have to have a reason, we just want to try it. I'm getting mine done because I saw the window open to factory made brass and a round similar to the .17AH, which I have to say was the best small game round I have ever owned by far. You think the HMR was novel when it came out... This thing completely smashes it! Not quite following that, the HMR has fulfilled a role, the fact the .17Hornet completely smashes it? ? ? , a 58g .243 would make a HMR or 17 Hornet look tame! :good: :lol: Yes, my guns are tools, I've grown up a bit and got a lot out of my system over the years, I get what I need these days! (well, not quite, got a .22Semi about 10 months back for a bit of fun). My lad is a FAC/SGC holder as well, very good at it to all round, air, rimfire, cf, shotgun, (he even had a BB a few years ago), I do know what you are saying, but I still have to show him how it should be done sometimes, with the bog standard common calibres, just to keep him in check! Edit Let me also add at this point so there is no confusion, I am not slating this calibre at all, I remain very open minded awaiting it introduction and usage in this country, only then, in the fullness of time will it prove its worth or not. At the moment I have a lot of tools to choose from and I'm struggling to see a need for this for ME, so I am happily sitting on the fence to wait and see! Obviously others may see/have a need for this. Edited October 7, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'm getting mine done because I am a gun slag! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 It annoys me that nobody ever seems to realise be objective 1st line bad, 2nd line good. Nobody? Ever? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) In fact, to stir it up even more Yep, why not!? Some time ago I mentioned Optimum Game Weight (OGW) and got absolutely slated. Fair dos. However, I put the 3 different loads that I use in my 2 Hornets in the programme, selecting what I thought to be the correct fox "target weight". The resultant maximum ranges that the programme spat out were 160. 230 and 260 yards (this was based on energy - I wouldn't use the latter because of bullet drop, I'm not that good). This seemed to match my experience. Just put the 17 Hornet figures through Infinity and I have to say it did look good. Then I put it through the OGW programme - every thing like for like but obviously using the 17's figures and got 70 yards. Oops! Edited October 7, 2012 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have got a feeling that the 20gr bullet may be a bit light for fox, we will have to see. I doubt that in reality it will have the same ability as the .22 version in that department but on the other hand it will be a lot better than a HMR and shoots flatter for the smaller game than the .22H. Do us a favour and run a 25gr bullet through your Infinity thingy and see what it comes out at - it's going to be running at about 3200fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I have got a feeling that the 20gr bullet may be a bit light for fox, we will have to see. I doubt that in reality it will have the same ability as the .22 version in that department but on the other hand it will be a lot better than a HMR and shoots flatter for the smaller game than the .22H. and there we have that better word, its not better if you use the gun for rabbits to 150 yards and shoot a few hundred a month. Its then expensive and you do loads of reloading. Its not better than a .223 on foxes which is also legal for small deer, by the time people have to shoot rabbits that far away its hobby sniping nothing else its not rabbit control. The gun has a place in my mind as a walk about gun you can shoot anything with, this thread shows some funny things. People go out and buy really heavy centerfires they then don't want to carry about and end up buying a light walk about gun that is inferior on foxes and expensive to shoot on rabbits. Personally I tend to buy relatively light guns so the problem doesn't arise and for a walkabout would just take the .223, very little in it cost wise per shot and I wouldn't need to spend £1500 on another gun scope and mod etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I have got a feeling that the 20gr bullet may be a bit light for fox, we will have to see. I doubt that in reality it will have the same ability as the .22 version in that department but on the other hand it will be a lot better than a HMR and shoots flatter for the smaller game than the .22H. Do us a favour and run a 25gr bullet through your Infinity thingy and see what it comes out at - it's going to be running at about 3200fps. OK, Quickly put it through the OGW and got 100 yards on the nose. Infinity: with a zero of 150 yards at 200 yards and sight height of 2" it gave: 20, Energy (E) 294, Bullet Path (BP) -1.3 and Wind (W) at 10 mph cross 5.6 25, E 318 BP -1.7 and W 5.2 The advantage of infinity is that you can compare up to 5 rounds at once on a graph for each of the above parameters plus velocity. Looking at these two side by side, the immediate impression is is that really there's no appreciable difference of consequence. I didn't print velocity just the functions of it. If you'd like it sing out. For my money and it's only my opinion that this is no more than a round for the very few people who have the ability (of which I'm jealous) to consistantly cleanly kill rabbit and other small vermin out to a range greater than that offered by the 17 HMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I dont think it has a place here with the lighter bullets viewed between the existing .22 Hornet and .223 /.223. Its a small furry critter gun IMO we want fox, crow and ground game capable in the uk (a 45grn bullet is very deadly compared to a 20grn). If i felt i had to have one it would be in a single shot format short OA length and fully moderated. rimmed cases like hornet can lock up in a mag if you aint too carefull and its hard finding the tiny ejected brass (especially at night) and the big plus with any hornet is small amounts of powder burned dont require a long barrel and are very good to moderate- So why not make the most of these things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 and there we have that better word, its not better if you use the gun for rabbits to 150 yards and shoot a few hundred a month. Its then expensive and you do loads of reloading. Its not better than a .223 on foxes which is also legal for small deer, by the time people have to shoot rabbits that far away its hobby sniping nothing else its not rabbit control. The gun has a place in my mind as a walk about gun you can shoot anything with, this thread shows some funny things. People go out and buy really heavy centerfires they then don't want to carry about and end up buying a light walk about gun that is inferior on foxes and expensive to shoot on rabbits. Personally I tend to buy relatively light guns so the problem doesn't arise and for a walkabout would just take the .223, very little in it cost wise per shot and I wouldn't need to spend £1500 on another gun scope and mod etc etc Al4x - my centrefire (.223), which I accept I cant carry around easily, was a bargain - Less than £600 for a rifle, variable power scope, case, reloading gear including press, 100 bullets and 40 made up rounds - plus the recipe. Not being an idiot, I did not look in his mouth so I'm now buying a new rifle, so my circumstances are not typical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Just had a read through this so far and posts # 6,8,9 and 20 stood out. I think half our problem is that we cannot get what we want. 'Want' as in require/need to suit. As there is no real manufacturing base left in the UK to which we could address our needs, all we can get our sticky little fingers on is someone else's leftovers once their home requirement is met. This is the root of the problem - our home is not their home and our needs are different. It seems to me that what we're saying is that we need a gap filler between a 17HMR/22WMR and a 222/223. It also appears that the new 17 Hornet may be the answer as it shoots flat, but on the other hand its poke may not be too good for fox at the, say, 150 yard (wide open for debate here just a figure for discussion) twixt ranges requirement. The 22 version apparently has already been discarded as being too 'loopy'. Have a look at what's on offer for bullets for the newish 204 calibre. We're looking at 32 gns in particular. The only thing readily available in that ballpark weight for the 22 Hornet is the 35 gn V Max which has the BC akin to that of a house brick. The target customer base for all sporting gun/ammo manufacturers will be the USA. Goods will be made to suit her needs and that's what we'll get stuck with because the initial cost of setting up a production of bullets to meet our tiny little requirement is simply not worth the effort. Would we be in such an apparent hurry to spend our hard earned dosh on something new that may or may not meet our needs when there is already in existance a rifle that can do so provided the one problem it currently suffers from could be overcome by the provision of a 30 ish gn ballistic tipped bullet with a 0.210+ish BC and having a 0.224" diameter. For my money, the answer is, no and the words cart and horse spring to mind. Edit: missing word added. Edited October 9, 2012 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Christened mine on a fox this morning. It was crossing one of our feed rides at 200 yds, dropped like a sack of spuds. Hit it sideways on just behind the front leg. Small entry hole, inside turned to mush. Much like the results from my .204. I'll get a better idea of how it performs on fox with a few more in the bag. Vermin obviously no problem. Rifle groups well or should I say better than me. Almost touching at 100 yds and about an inch at 200 yds. So to sum up: barrel very accurate, bolt stiff when extracting fired brass, plastic stock feels cheap like many do but does the job good enough and floated barrel has plenty of room. Triggers as good or better than many. It' short enough to fit on the Gator dashboard with a mod on and appears to be rain and mud resistant. No real complaints yet..............time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 By gum, Charlie, that's something else! If that turns out to be a consistant performance, the other bullet that I mentioned would take that out to 250. Yep, I know, it wouldn't be deer legal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I will stick to the .22 variant , its easy to account for even out to 250 with the proper bullets and handloads. Stiff bolt lift indicates pressure and short brass life to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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