CharlieT Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 If the issue comes up again, then politely put across the pro shooting side of the argument. But do it politely. Include things such as ethical meat production, how shooting is done to a high welfare standard, and if he is a meat eater, explain how much better shooting is than factory farming (and free range farming, as the animals still go the abbatoir where rules and regulations are sometimes broken). Nice attitude. Run down farming to justify your sport. Just remember who provides the land you shoot over !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Some battles are not worth fighting, and I reckon you may end up banging your head against a brick wall. Once people are set in their ways it takes a lot to change them. Much better off introducing someone with no pre-conceptions to shooting in my experience. Every year I take a few new people out shooting (clays), if every shooter did the same, it'd be a lot of positive education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 To be honest I think the time for discussion is over, warm yourself up and rev up the red mist, call him into the room and clothes line him in the throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Some battles are not worth fighting, and I reckon you may end up banging your head against a brick wall. Once people are set in their ways it takes a lot to change them. Much better off introducing someone with no pre-conceptions to shooting in my experience. Every year I take a few new people out shooting (clays), if every shooter did the same, it'd be a lot of positive education. thats great for gun ownership issues, an oven ready joint of venison or birds does a great deal more for field sports. The scandinavians have open days were they take non shooters out on organised hunts, any anti influance is quickly surpressed by those who come for an honest look see. We hide it away, its not suprising we are having issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Most people are blinkered as to food production, they can't see anything prior to when it was put into it's plastic wrapping and onto the shelf at the supermarket.. And.. In my experience.. Don't want to. They are happy to eat meat but really don't want to know how it got to the plate. That is thier choice and you will just put them on the back foot if you try to change thier minds (bit like religion... There is often no point and everyone is entitled to an opinion and that opinion should be respected.) I have had success altering my family's point of view (mum has been a veggie for 40 years) by using eggs and chicken as an analogy. Most people I know would always go for free range eggs and free range chicken over battery hens... Choosing free range meat over farmed meat is a similar choice in my view and people seem to understand that. Ths is a great argument with venison but falls flat with game birds. Most people (even me) can't get thier heads round birds being bred to be shot, even with the conservation arguments.. So try the chicken & egg analogy and ask him which he would choose To be honest I think the time for discussion is over, warm yourself up and rev up the red mist, call him into the room and clothes line him in the throat. Is mungler giving lessons in diplomacy now? :-) Edited October 31, 2012 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ths is a great argument with venison but falls flat with game birds. Most people (even me) can't get thier heads round birds being bred to be shot, even with the conservation arguments.. All animals that we eat are bred to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 All animals that we eat are bred to be killed. not quite wild game is the exception but indeed all farm animals are and its no different to reared game other than a pheasant has a good chance of lasting the season or meeting any number of "natural" hazards that will end its life naturally. Whats interesting is with the number of TV chefs and the Game to eat campaign I'm getting all sorts of requests for Game I've shot at the moment from people wanting to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 All animals that we eat are bred to be killed. this argument also aplies to experimental animals, used in scientific studies. they are bred for one purpose research. if they wernt needed they shouldnt be bred. if you read tha back of some products, "this product has not been tested on animals" there inlie a little white lie. while the statement is true, the products components have to have been tested on animals. its a mute point, worthless. so some tree huggers are just blind to the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Have a look in his fridge, if there's any meat give him a good lecture about the evils of factory farming. Agreed.Hypocrisy and so called animal welfare often goes hand in hand. Don't forget to leave a few Shooting Times in the backs of the drawers for him to find later I'd be more inclined to leave some hardcore porn instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiedenny Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I like talking to Anti's, I haven't met one yet that I can't convince at the very least that whilst they may not agree its certainly something they shouldn't judge (like being gay). My 40 year Vegan father in law is now a fishmonger, go team pro hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshLamb Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Take him some (prepared) meat that you've shot. It might change his view a bit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 All animals that we eat are bred to be killed. slight difference.... game birds are bred... at great expense.... to be shot... FOR FUN... by well heeled chaps in tweed who pay a lot of money for the privilage of doing it... not for food, that is just a by product, or for medical research! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 you're sounding pretentious and un informed there Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 you're sounding pretentious and un informed there Vipa not at all... never been able to get my head round game shooting but I'm very open to education... if I have misunderstood something regarding the sport and the reasons folk do it please let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 well I'd argue the great expense, the well heeled and the chaps in tweed none of which apply on our syndicate. If you take the shooting out of it all we do is a load of conservation, help the wild population as much as we can, supplement with a few 100 birds. Control the vermin to such ends and have a few driven days a year which are enjoyable, I gain the same enjoyment as I do stalking no difference. At the end of the day beaters and guns alike take the birds home, on the more professional shoot I beat on yes some are well heeled but it supports a fair few local jobs. keeps the estate in good order and certainly has a lot of benefits conservation wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 It's an interesting angle Vipa, you could also say that the bi product is fun, and the only anomaly is the method of killing, it could also be seen simply as alternative meat production. I don't shoot game, but can see the whole picture a little clearer than you I guess, the shooting, the food production, the integrated nucleus of the shooting community are all as intrinsic to each other in this unique method of farming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Nice attitude. Run down farming to justify your sport. Just remember who provides the land you shoot over !! It's not farming that is the problem, except when it's a factory farm. It's the slaughter process. Rules are usually adhered to, but shooting is the best way to guarantee that your meat has lived a good life and had a quick and painless death. It's just a point to bring up if someone says "well I get free range meat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 slight difference.... game birds are bred... at great expense.... to be shot... FOR FUN... by well heeled chaps in tweed who pay a lot of money for the privilage of doing it... not for food, that is just a by product, or for medical research! Looks like someone has been reading the animal rights leaflets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 It's not farming that is the problem, except when it's a factory farm. It's the slaughter process. Rules are usually adhered to, but shooting is the best way to guarantee that your meat has lived a good life and had a quick and painless death. It's just a point to bring up if someone says "well I get free range meat". Balderdash, unless you read the anti propaganda but you never get something get away wounded in a slaughterhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Balderdash, unless you read the anti propaganda but you never get something get away wounded in a slaughterhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 all these do gooders that dont eat meat, dont wear fur or leather have at some time been treated with drugs, or popped a headache pill which has caused some animal to suffer, but i am sure they wouldnt admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Looks like someone has been reading the animal rights leaflets Ok.. Let's look at this logically.. Rightly or wrongly, there is little demand for game bird meat.. This can be evidenced by the fact that a brace of pheasant can be had for a couple of quid after a shoot and a lot just get binned. The main purpose in breeding the birds is for them to be shot by paying guests etc.. Not for food... If we took away the demand/desire to shoot the birds for 'sport' (fun) then it would be uneconomical to breed the birds for the food chain as there is not the demand for the meat. There would be a few small farms servicing a niche food market but that would be all. Whilst I applaud the conservation efforts of shoots and syndicates... Nature has done a pretty good job of keeping itself in good shape without human intervention for the past few million years, in fact it is when man gets involved that things start going to pot! Game birds cannot be classed as free range as they are bred in captivity (to varying degrees) an then released in time for the shooting season. If I am incorrect in any of my understanding of the facts then I am happy to be corrected. I am all for free range meat and harvest my own WILD venison and pigeon when I get chance but I feel there is a huge moral issue with the shooting of game birds which I can't justify in my head just because it keeps a few people in jobs and brings cash into communities. Breeding animals specifically for someone to shoot for fun is morally wrong.. A bit like inviting folk to pay at the slaughterhouse to shoot the odd cow/sheep/pig... But that would be morally repugnant wouldn't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 You're talking ******** Vipa a fine anti showing his colours but without having the first idea what you are talking about. You need to educate yourself and experience some game shooting to see how much **** you are talking. Our pheasants have been released since late July first shoot is this week, they were reared in grass pens like most and have had complete freedom since 2 weeks going to wood. No birds are dumped all ours will be eaten on the larger shoot I am on the dealer has everything what doesn't get eaten in the UK there is a fine continental market for. Where I think the issues and rumours come from may be someones midden etc and any birds not fit for the table, much like stalking a certain number will be condemned usually due to poor shooting which is exactly the same as stalking. The fact we gain sport from it well its hard for you to comprehend but no different whatsoever to you shooting wild game. The fact is the meat is a great by product of the sport and some of us pretty much live on it during the winter months, when you look at the cost of the bird to the dealer think about what chickens sell for pre processing those 3 for a tenner birds will be worth less than a pheasant in the feather and I know which has had a better life. Those few jobs you talk about is a major industry and unlike yours an honest hard working industry of proper country people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remy 700 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 WELL SAID fellow country man al4x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ok.. Let's look at this logically.. Rightly or wrongly, there is little demand for game bird meat.. This can be evidenced by the fact that a brace of pheasant can be had for a couple of quid after a shoot and a lot just get binned. The main purpose in breeding the birds is for them to be shot by paying guests etc.. Not for food... If we took away the demand/desire to shoot the birds for 'sport' (fun) then it would be uneconomical to breed the birds for the food chain as there is not the demand for the meat. There would be a few small farms servicing a niche food market but that would be all. Whilst I applaud the conservation efforts of shoots and syndicates... Nature has done a pretty good job of keeping itself in good shape without human intervention for the past few million years, in fact it is when man gets involved that things start going to pot! Game birds cannot be classed as free range as they are bred in captivity (to varying degrees) an then released in time for the shooting season. If I am incorrect in any of my understanding of the facts then I am happy to be corrected. I am all for free range meat and harvest my own WILD venison and pigeon when I get chance but I feel there is a huge moral issue with the shooting of game birds which I can't justify in my head just because it keeps a few people in jobs and brings cash into communities. Breeding animals specifically for someone to shoot for fun is morally wrong.. A bit like inviting folk to pay at the slaughterhouse to shoot the odd cow/sheep/pig... But that would be morally repugnant wouldn't it! The demand for game meat is small but it is increasing. Nature? The British coubtryside is entirely man made. Nature took care of itself when Britain was covered in woodland and still had all its constituent species. That was thousands of years ago. Nature does not fully take care of itself today. That argument is out of date. Today, management is essential, and most of this is from game management. Shooters manage more land than all other conservation bodies put together. Without game management, who would manage the land, and where would the money come from? Most land would become neglected and would become a wildlife desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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