shinybum Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 i have a theoben s-type rapid 17, not being used much so keep toying with the idea of having it uprated to fac, what are your thoughts and experiences on this and what power level would be suitable. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 What do you want to do with it? Do you have anything else FAC? .22 is more common as a FAC because it is commonly more useful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 A friend of mine had one for a while but got rid of it as he prefered his .20 and .22 FAC air buy a long way ! Horses for courses I guess but he didnt like it once he had it and so it went. Its resale value is sure to remain higher as a sub 12 .177 too ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinybum Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 i was thinking it would be useful for pigeon shooting as i enjoy taking them from the trees but general air gunning as well, yes i have fac, .22lr 17hmr .223 and 6.5x55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Look around for one already at FAC, buy that sell yours, unless it has a great sentimental attachment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 i have a 177 fac mfr running at 20 ft lbs. 17 shots in a 5p size group at 40 yds....... nice calibre if it`s not too windy.. using crosman premiers heavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Wrong calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tod Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 .177 isnt ideal in FAC, its just too light, go with a .22 or .25, also buy one already done as you will devalue yours by quite a bit if you put it on a ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 think any of you guys saying this is the wrong calibre don`t have a clue..... i too shoot 20 and 22 both in fac..... 177 fac does have its place no doubt..... i class it as the hmr in the air rifle world lol...oh and might i add i`m just about to take mine now to whack a few maggies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tod Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 think any of you guys saying this is the wrong calibre don`t have a clue..... i too shoot 20 and 22 both in fac..... 177 fac does have its place no doubt..... i class it as the hmr in the air rifle world lol...oh and might i add i`m just about to take mine now to whack a few maggies what makes you think people dont have a clue because they say .177 is not an ideal calibre for FAC, please enlighten me, maybe .177 FAC does have its place but given the chioce how many people would choose .177 over .22 or .25 in FAC air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Depends on the pellet weight I think, most people associate .177 with the lighter pellet weights, stick something like this in and you will have a flat shooting rifle with quite a bit of stopping power... http://www.piledriverpellets.co.uk/ A 21 grain .177 pellet??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tod Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Depends on the pellet weight I think, most people associate .177 with the lighter pellet weights, stick something like this in and you will have a flat shooting rifle with quite a bit of stopping power... http://www.piledriverpellets.co.uk/ A 21 grain .177 pellet??? love the name, they dont look like they will be very accurate but who knows eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 All about shot place ment mate. You do your bit the pellet will do the rest. Any calibre capable in the right hands . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 just nailed a 55 yd crow from my back door with a headshot.... 177 at 950 fps, dont think it cared whether it was 177 or 22 fac.. job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 what makes you think people dont have a clue because they say .177 is not an ideal calibre for FAC, please enlighten me, maybe .177 FAC does have its place but given the chioce how many people would choose .177 over .22 or .25 in FAC air Exactly, why limit yourself to heavier pellets in .177 when you can make better use of a larger calibre. The majority of .177 pellets will start to go supersonic and also deform under the pressure. They aren't robust enough to take the power and accuracy suffers as a result. They can work below 20fpe maybe, but what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 accuracy does nt always suffer mate,in fact i find them inherently accurate..... i was a disbeliever till i tried it for myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinybum Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 accuracy does nt always suffer mate,in fact i find them inherently accurate..... i was a disbeliever till i tried it for myself what pellet are you using and what weight, what is your trajectory like, there is a wealth of opinion so far and have not yet made any decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Every gun will be different mate. Im using premier heavy at 950 odd. Play with chair gun for the trajectory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx10mike Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 177 limited to lower ft lbs without going through the sound barrier,suffers from over penitration at fac and will not clean kill as well as a 22 fac. .22 can go 50 ft lbs of energy without breaking the sound barrier and due to greater surface area and better expansion kills alot cleaner . 177 is great as sub 12 and my pal swears buy them but at fac its out classed. just my 2p worth mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon6ppc Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 i ave a 12 ftlb 177 and a fac 22, both ave there job, ones for pigeons in mills, the other rabbits etc, i ave thawt the same of a 177 fac but got put off as folk dont seem to like the idea and it is only a very light pellet after all,but in all honesty 177 can be very deadly in the right hands but if your not as experienced you can wound your quarry alot easier, so 22 has to be the calibur for me.cheers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon6ppc Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 177 limited to lower ft lbs without going through the sound barrier,suffers from over penitration at fac and will not clean kill as well as a 22 fac. .22 can go 50 ft lbs of energy without breaking the sound barrier and due to greater surface area and better expansion kills alot cleaner . 177 is great as sub 12 and my pal swears buy them but at fac its out classed. just my 2p worth mike your spot on pal :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) If that is the case how come the 17 HMR rifle is so well liked by the shooting fraternity? As for weight/deformation, depends on the pellet, if using Piledrivers, no such problem, 21 grain pellet, solid bullet shaped slug. The Piledriver is also designed to go transonic, Ie cross into plus mach speeds and go back down under them.... Penetration, until I see one of the these things in action I cannot say if it will suffer more from over penetration than a standard .177, if it span after impact as most pellets would, it will leave a big mess behind it! Edited November 12, 2012 by secretagentmole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 well guys, as i said before i was a 177 fac disbeliever.. not taking everything i read on forums as gospel(as some do), i decided to spend a few quid and try for myself....yes i have 20 and 22 fac as well..... all i can say my rifle is an absolute tack driver,had 2 squirrels at 40 and 55 yds this am... does the 22 hit harder ? of course it does.. less thirsty on air??? again yes.. my mfr, i tuned and replaced the internals and had reg work done and still giving 80+ shots at 20 ft lbs so it`s suffice for me.... once again it`s all about shot placement... think some folk need to invest in one before slating something..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 If that is the case how come the 17 HMR rifle is so well liked by the shooting fraternity? As for weight/deformation, depends on the pellet, if using Piledrivers, no such problem, 21 grain pellet, solid bullet shaped slug. The Piledriver is also designed to go transonic, Ie cross into plus mach speeds and go back down under them.... Penetration, until I see one of the these things in action I cannot say if it will suffer more from over penetration than a standard .177, if it span after impact as most pellets would, it will leave a big mess behind it! Not quite sure what you are getting at, the .17HMR and the .177 Air Rifle are more than a little different. The HMR is designed for high speed performance, destructive terminal ballistics, with appropriate twist rates and ammo, your .177 air rifle isn't, neither is the ammo. Standard 17g V-Max HMR leaves your barrel at 2550ft sec carrying 245ft lb energy, at 200 yards it is STILL supersonic by a lot, so there is no transonic debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) i have a 177 fac mfr running at 20 ft lbs. 17 shots in a 5p size group at 40 yds....... nice calibre if it`s not too windy.. using crosman premiers heavy 10.5-10.6g so about 21ft lb! think any of you guys saying this is the wrong calibre don`t have a clue..... i too shoot 20 and 22 both in fac..... 177 fac does have its place no doubt..... i class it as the hmr in the air rifle world lol...oh and might i add i`m just about to take mine now to whack a few maggies just nailed a 55 yd crow from my back door with a headshot.... 177 at 950 fps, dont think it cared whether it was 177 or 22 fac.. job done 10.5-10.6g so about 21ft lb! Every gun will be different mate. Im using premier heavy at 950 odd.10.5-10.6g so about 21ft lb! Play with chair gun for the trajectory well guys, as i said before i was a 177 fac disbeliever.. not taking everything i read on forums as gospel(as some do), i decided to spend a few quid and try for myself....yes i have 20 and 22 fac as well..... all i can say my rifle is an absolute tack driver,had 2 squirrels at 40 and 55 yds this am... does the 22 hit harder ? of course it does.. less thirsty on air??? again yes.. my mfr, i tuned and replaced the internals and had reg work done and still giving 80+ shots at 20 ft lbs so it`s suffice for me.... once again it`s all about shot placement... think some folk need to invest in one before slating something..... First off, and before anyone says anything, yes, I have too much time on my hands at the moment, still recovering from a Knee operation. I don't see anyone here slating the .177 in FAC, people are simply pointing out the benefits, or otherwise of the calibre in FAC, just like you have done in several posts, and you are running at about 21ft lb, which is about the most powerful it is sensible to run in .177, and using Heavy pellets to do it, which you also say are fine, if it isn't windy. You also run .20 and .22 in FAC so obviously accept the other calibres do better in some situations! Getting a .22 to 30ft lb is easy, accuracy wise it is just as good as a .177, and the heavier .22 pellets also retain/deliver their energy better, also uses less air. For most makes of FAC Air, a .177 at 20 ft lb will use about the same or MORE air than a .22 at 30ft lb, so shots per charge will almost always be as good, or better with the .22, which is also producing 50% more power at the same time! Over penetration is something spouted off a lot in air rifle threads, if you hit a crow in the head at 30-40-50 yards it will over penetrate with any FAC air. The .22 FAC is perfectly capable of 55 yard crow head shots, but would I personally bother, NO, this isn't target practise its Pest Control. Hit a crow, pigeon, rat, rabbit, etc almost anywhere else and you will stop it with a .22 because it will deliver its energy better, make a bigger hole and pass through less often than a .177. Ok that is 40 yards, but it is also only 25ft lb not 30, it is also an 8 shot group, every one of which would have removed crows head!! .....And back from when I was a boy! :lol: Of course a .177 has its uses, especially when you have a .20 and .22 as well, but the .22 in FAC is without doubt the most versatile/useful by far. ATB! PS What power are you actually running your .22 at? if it is around 30ft lb I don't understand your great affection for the .177, the .22 at 30ft lb will destroy a .177 at 21ft lb in every respect. Running them both at 21ft lb will not produce such conclusive results, but that is hardly realistic in FAC! But frankly, I'd still take a 21ft lb .22 over a 21ft lb .177 for general usefulness anyway! Edited November 12, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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