Teal Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 I shot a pigeon yesterday and it did not show obvious signs of being hit, it must have been near the edge of the range, it was above the tree tops and out to my right, anyway I hadn't been getting much shooting so I thought might as well. My eyes followed it and I thought, why did I waste that cartridge it was well out of range, when the thing turns round half way accross the next field and makes a comeback to where I'm standing, I stay still this time having loaded up my empty barrel and it just kept on coming, I thought it was going to fly straight over me but it instead went to land in a tree maybe 60 yards in front of me, just as it was about to land it dropped and I ran to where it fell and it was lying on its back stone dead? I have seen stranger things before but just thought I'd relate this to yourselves for comments or similar experiences. I have seen pheasants be hit and they rise up another 20 feet before then dropping down stone dead, I guess the pellet must have hit somewhere in the head and interupted some nerves!! Also you should have been there to see my springer in full cry which is more like yelps, I presumed it would be a rabbit which ran past imagine my suprise when it was a muntjac fawn, which even still was at least triple the size of my springer (she's not very big), I laughed so much and called her off the chase, but it was just so funny seeing this big deer being chased haha. She's not seen deer before and blatantly just thought it was a rather large rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Maby one of the shot hit the spine and it had a delayed paralasis on the bird, causing it to become disorientated and then drop from the sky. Did if flap or glide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted October 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 It was gliding pretty much in a huge loop, which would fit in with your idea of the shot hitting the spine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 I think we have all had similar experiences of "tower birds", or birds that fly off strongly and then fall down stone dead. Apart from the, one pellet in the spine/brain theory, I also think the motion of flying can move a pellet to a crucial location. Blood loss, is also another option. Some birds that appear to land in trees and then fall to the ground and are picked up dead, often have a broken leg (s). Its the fall that breaks their neck and kills them. It does pay to watch them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.223 Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 how do you explain the birds that fly round in small sircles and go higher and higher then after about 2mins of flying higher drop head i have had pigeons and duck do this they dont fly away just go striaght up in circles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 .223, that is what is referred to as a "tower bird". I have seen that the most, with walked up partridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 I have seen (and shot) many a pheasent that glides, locks its wings and just glides dead. Its a bit of a g*t when they are a high bird and it happens. I would hate to go pick it, I have seen them go over a gypsum mine, and land 1/4 of a mile away. I find alot of the larger birs with broken necks after hitting the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 I have a had similar with a magpie last weekend two of us were shooting from one hide when a magpie came towards us I emptied three into it and it tumbled a bit with all three and my friend emptied two into it from his s/s the furthest shot was taken at about forty yards. the bird then flew down the field about 250 yards and fell out of the sky. But hey we got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 leon, no mystery there...........................sheer weight of lead. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Cran there was nothing left for the lead to be in!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Tower birds - This happens when a pellet go's into the bird's lung , thus causing said lung to fill with blood . The bird throws its head back in an attempt to clear the blood (just like hocking a luggy) . When the head is tilted back it makes the bird fly straight up in the air . Untill the bird's lung compleatly fills with blood and hence can't breath , then plumits back to terra firma. The real mystery to the tower bird is why it does not fly round in a big loop. all the best yis yp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Why would it fly in a loop? A Pheasent can acutally only flap for a number of seconds about 10. After that it glides and cant flap till it has a rest. It would have to dive, reach terminal velocity and then pull up to do a loop, it's weight and drag would have to be less than the thrust (which decrasces with time when gliding at an angle above horizontal), the drag is linked to the thrust so that would also decreace, so it would stall on the up and stop, change diection, the kinetic energy it had would become GPE and then back to kinetic as it plumeted. If you make a dart paper plane and bend the flaps to near vertical and drop it (with out any additional force i.e throwing) it will go like so: .......... .......... .\ .................................................................. .............\ ............................................................... .............. \ ...................... __.................................... .... . . .................\ ..................../....\ . .......... . ....................\................/........\ . ................... . ........................\.........../.......... \ ..................... ......._____.............\ .....................................................\ ..................................................Krunch ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not the best explanation in the world. It wont reach its original hight because some engergy is lost, otherwise it would be perpendicular motion, which is impossible as energy is wasted through sound, heat and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 A **** diagramme, but it wouldnt let me do what i wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 red_stag88, I shot a paper dart once and it did just what your diagram shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted October 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 It would have to dive, reach terminal velocity and then pull up to do a loop .... it's weight and drag would have to be less than the thrust (which decrasces with time when gliding at an angle above horizontal), the drag is linked to the thrust so that would also decreace, so it would stall on the up and stop, change diection, the kinetic energy it had would become GPE and then back to kinetic as it plumeted. If you make a dart paper plane and bend the flaps to near vertical and drop it (with out any additional force i.e throwing) it will go like so: I would doubt that in 40 yards a 2lb pheasant will reach terminal velocity. Other than that your reasoning makes sense I'll take yours and cranner's word for the paper dart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Yould be suprised, a coin does it, its all a about mass and gravtional feild strenght. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted October 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Yep but with a coin we're talking a fraction of an ounce a few grams in new terms perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Drop the biggest book in your house from the same hight as a 20p coin. They will hit the ground at the same time, one weighting several lbs and the other very little. The reason a pheaseant doesnt reach TV at the same time is because it is desinged to fly, with rigd wings the drag straight down is massive, if the bird does one of the cartwheely things when it gets hit, it will reach TV very quickly if shot 40yds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 One assumes that the book, 20p coin and pheasant, would all be the same degree devoid of life, as we know it , after this experiment. Job done, say I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 I agree with YP on this one. I see it happen with geese and duck now and again. You see the bird has been hit, It will fly off for two or three hundred yards then arch its wings back and drop dead out of the sky. This is nearly always a lung shot resulting in the lung filling with blood and killing the bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-eye-dick Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 I've had a few pigeons with the 'lung shot' type situation, but all have flown away at top speed. Then after maybe 2-3 hundred yards have turned, and flown straight back towards me, then dropped dead almost at my feet. Possibly they had fitted a bayonett to their beaks and are dive boming me ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted October 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 I've had a few pigeons with the 'lung shot' type situation, but all have flown away at top speed. Then after maybe 2-3 hundred yards have turned, and flown straight back towards me, then dropped dead almost at my feet. Possibly they had fitted a bayonett to their beaks and are dive boming me ?? I once shot at this crow when out pigeon decoying and missed him but the ****** turns round and dive bombs me, I ducked and as he flew off he got 28g of lead in him, certainly he won't be doing that again, in fact come to think of it he won't be doing much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted October 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Drop the biggest book in your house from the same hight as a 20p coin. They will hit the ground at the same time, one weighting several lbs and the other very little. f=ma so force which = mass x gravity Therefore force / mass = acceleration (as per f=ma) Since force as we've already discovered = massx gravity mass x gravity /mass = acceleration Therefore we can conclude that mass is not a factor in the acceleration of the object. Gravity = acceleration Of course this assumes that air resistance or drag is 0 which in reality we can't do so we'll determine it to be "r". gravity - r = acceleration. Therefore at terminal velocity acceleration will = 0 gravity - r = 0 .'. gravity = r F_drag = 0.5 c p v^2 A c = coefficient of drag for a thin airfoil = 0.5 (estimate) p = density of air which is 1 g/L v = T.V. of coin = ? (the unknown) A = frontal area of falling (edge-on as this will pose the least drag and so will be the option prefered as it falls), (we assume about 18 mm x 1 mm) F_gravity = m g m = mass of coin = 2 g (a guess) g = 9.8 m/s^2 If we set the air resistance to equal to the force of gravity, as this will be true at terminal velocity (downward force will equal upward force and therefore no acceleration). mg = 0.5 c p v^2 A We want to isolate V to get the terminal velocity v^2 = mg / (0.5 c p A) To get V we root both sides; v = Square root[(m g)/(0.5 c p A)] = 200 m/s ( >1 sig fig not justified ) Coin would reach this velocity of 200 m/s at acceleration (as we already know is 9.8m/s^2) so 20 seconds. In these 20 seconds the coin would travel (from rest) 0.5x9.8 20^2 = which is 2000 m. I don't know about where you live but my house is not 2km high I'm glad I gave up physics after gcse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pieman Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 William, following your last post I'm sending you a small sum of money. Treat yourelf to the cinema, dinner with friends etc - you DEFINITELY need to get out more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.