guest1957 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I'm glad he's been arrested. I wouldn't expect anything else. If you dont support this country and its traditions, war dead then they should be put on a plain and their British passport burnt. Bet they wouldn't like that. Save us a fortune on benefits to. Other country's would Hang people for things like this. We are just to soft and nanzy pansy in the uk. And the police have their hands tied by human rights etc etc etc. On a 'plain' what? Fortunately we don't have the totalitarian state you describe. If you want it you should be the one on a 'plane elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) If that was the Koran he'd have been beheaded, and majority of muslims would agree, He should of done it in front of a load of serving soldiers/vetrans if he feels that strongly about the cause!! WEASEL!! Ratus And then we would have all be up in arms calling them heathens and barbarians! Can't have it all ways.... we either have total freedom to express our views, beliefs and feelings or... we start the long slippery slope backwards that either puts you in a siberian prison for saying something nasty (but probably true) about the president or gets you beheaded for saying something nasty about (or even just not believing in...) a book! All hail the mystical teapot! Edited November 12, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 This gives a small insight into how difficult it is to apply law. My approach is common sense, I'd suggest that millions of people would be outraged by something like this, therefore an arrest would be proportionate, lawful, appropriate and necessary. I doubt anyone would get arrested if a person were"offended" by their hawaiian shirt or style of hair. Lets be sensible here, as far as offending people goes burning a poppy/flag whatever is pretty much the top end. I agree with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Hang on.... I'm ex-military and whilst I find this slightly distasteful and if I'm honest, more than a little stupid, there are those out there that find the whole idea of war abhorrent, they feel that honouring the dead glorifies war (which it does) and they feel the need to show thier feelings... if burning a poppy is how said plonker want's to get his point accross then let him do it... but it is his point, he is entitled to it and is perfectly within his rights to have that point and share it.. Those of us who feel otherwise should be big enough and grown up enough to just say... 'ok.. we feel differently but point taken!' This is not in the same league as burning a Quaran.... and even then, should our justice system really be moved to act when someone wants to (peacefully) air thier views absolutely not! as someone said earlier, the thought police will be along soon! this is one step too close to being told how to feel and how to act...... worthy of a slap, not worthy of the police.... Was talking to a copper the other day and he was telling me that he has to attend at least 2 calls a day where someone has called them because someone has called them names on facebook or other social media sites! what an absolute waste of police time and a complete overreaction from all quarters..... Social media could well be the thing to bring our society to its knees... truly the work of the devil! Well said, Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think Social Media is already having a corrosive effect on our society. He should be free to do what he wants but expect a hard time from the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Well said, Thank you. Oh God............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Oh God............ Care to elaborate? the point is well made, people need to grow up and not restrict others freedoms because their feelings might get hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Have now finished with my poppies for this year, so have thrown them in the bin.....should I expect a knock on the door? Edited November 12, 2012 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Have now finished with my poppies for this year, so have thrown them in the bin.....should I expect a knock on the door? I am extremely offended by this! Wait where you are, The police are on the way to punish you for hurting my feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Shall we all imagine,for just one minute,that we,and all of our closest friends, are all Bomber command crew members.When the war is over,half of us are gone,forget the old "gave their lives" poetry,those who perished were shot,burned alive or smashed into pieces so small that rescue crews only had to scrape up 2.5kg's to call you a body.While we imagine this lets not forget that we are all volunteers.The single emblam that reminds us of our fallen hero's is a simple Red Poppy-if you cant find the intelligence to show respect and thanks by wearing one then so be it-but do not disrespect it by buying one then burning it-especially near me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 .The single emblam that reminds us of our fallen hero's is a simple Red Poppy-if you cant find the intelligence to show respect and thanks by wearing one then so be it Are you calling me stupid,I didn't wear a poppy this year,but I have the utmost respect for friends and colleagues who are no longer here,and all the other people who were killed in conflicts around the world,I don't need a poppy to remind me once a year,I bet there are a few like myself who remember all year round,and before you have a go I probably put a lot more than you in the twenty or so collectors tins I past in the last week, The poppy reminds some people a little to much,I only usually wear it on Remembrance Sunday ,but this year I couldn't make it,but I remembered all the same. As to the idiot who burnt a poppy,so what he is an idiot and will live with his stupid act for a long time,but at least he had the freedom to do it,in a country that is supposed to be the bastion of free speech.the idiot got exactly what he wanted, people like you and me talking about what he did,he should be ignored like a naughty child,or laughed at,he will soon get the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Care to elaborate? the point is well made, people need to grow up and not restrict others freedoms because their feelings might get hurt. You know what, I don't know if I can be *****, you claim human freedom, from my own perspective it revolves around impunity from the law for illicit substances. You proclaim human freedom, but are happy for the police in YOUR view not to tackle offensive behaviour, because YOU don't find it offensive. Now I've not assessed you in my professional capacity, but look up narcissism. This world is not about YOU, believe it or not, but as people move into stages of life, they fail to catch up so quickly with social change.....these people are often the vulnerable....and you know what?...YOU will be one of them at some point....when YOU don't fit the social norm, and its all confused or 'offensive' or 'upsetting'. You Sir, need to 'grow up', find some empathy and some social responsibility that doesn't revolve around you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 You know what, I don't know if I can be *****, you claim human freedom, from my own perspective it revolves around impunity from the law for illicit substances. You proclaim human freedom, but are happy for the police in YOUR view not to tackle offensive behaviour, because YOU don't find it offensive. Now I've not assessed you in my professional capacity, but look up narcissism. This world is not about YOU, believe it or not, but as people move into stages of life, they fail to catch up so quickly with social change.....these people are often the vulnerable....and you know what?...YOU will be one of them at some point....when YOU don't fit the social norm, and its all confused or 'offensive' or 'upsetting'. You Sir, need to 'grow up', find some empathy and some social responsibility that doesn't revolve around you. Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 You know what, I don't know if I can be *****, you claim human freedom, from my own perspective it revolves around impunity from the law for illicit substances. You proclaim human freedom, but are happy for the police in YOUR view not to tackle offensive behaviour, because YOU don't find it offensive. Now I've not assessed you in my professional capacity, but look up narcissism. This world is not about YOU, believe it or not, but as people move into stages of life, they fail to catch up so quickly with social change.....these people are often the vulnerable....and you know what?...YOU will be one of them at some point....when YOU don't fit the social norm, and its all confused or 'offensive' or 'upsetting'. You Sir, need to 'grow up', find some empathy and some social responsibility that doesn't revolve around you. Taking the moral high ground and attempting to call someone a narcissist? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) You know what, I don't know if I can be *****, you claim human freedom, from my own perspective it revolves around impunity from the law for illicit substances. You proclaim human freedom, but are happy for the police in YOUR view not to tackle offensive behaviour, because YOU don't find it offensive. Now I've not assessed you in my professional capacity, but look up narcissism. This world is not about YOU, believe it or not, but as people move into stages of life, they fail to catch up so quickly with social change.....these people are often the vulnerable....and you know what?...YOU will be one of them at some point....when YOU don't fit the social norm, and its all confused or 'offensive' or 'upsetting'. You Sir, need to 'grow up', find some empathy and some social responsibility that doesn't revolve around you. Kyska... your perspective doesn't really fit here does it... we are talking about a gesture, a visual act to either get his point and feelings accross or just because he's plain stupid... whichever it is, it is hardly in the same league as wanting freedom to abuse illegal drugs, is it! It is surely irrelevant whether one offends one or many? do we start arresting folk for giving the bird to an old dear? I'm sure she would find that offensive... As I have previously mentioned, there are many out there who feel that the glorification of war is just as misguided and abhorrent as we feel the act of burning a poppy and apparently dishonouring the fallen is. Those people are just as entitled to their own peaceful demonstration of feelings as we are to have the pomp and ceremony of the rememberance day parades and services... both are unsavoury or savoury displays of emotion.... dependent on through whos eyes they are viewed... Just because someone does not share your feelings does not justify villification or arrest... I think it was in the playground I learnt the rhyme... 'sticks and stones.....' This is not about showing empathy for your fellow man this is about being allowed to have your own mind, to make up that mind and, if you feel the need, to display those feelings in a peaceful way. Do not get me wrong, I am firmly on the other side of the fence from where this guy is but I am enlightened enough to be able to empathyse with him as well as those who follow the opposite view... if it was just a stupid stunt like the war grave smashing someone else posted then, I have no sympathy for him but still don't see how it warrants arrest! What on earth has happened/is happening to our country where the police are too busy dealing with name calling on Facebook to properly patrol our streets or arresting people for burning a poppy.... It is getting rediculous and out of hand... I feel very strongly that as a nation we need to 'grow up' Every day we are getting closer to a situation where it is quite feasible one could be incarcerated for 'not following the social norm.' when will that stop? scary stuff indeed! Edited November 12, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I'm not in for the debate on this. Its not about 'war' or ex military, its about civic responsibility, not the 'norm'..civic resonsibilty. I've got bored of this talk years ago, I listen to people on their platforms making excuses for their behaviour through eloquence, clever linguistics...whatever. We have a society to add to, all of us and if you dismiss the 'empathic' side of things, this is theoretically when social morality starts to crack, I can present papers on this, but they'll only be disregarded as heresay. I've seen this on a microlevel, from a nucleus level, I just hate the soapbox players proclaiming they want freedom from the authority of social 'correctness', where as its the threads of our society, just not enough deep thought goes into these spouts and ejaculations of rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) You know what, I don't know if I can be *****, you claim human freedom, from my own perspective it revolves around impunity from the law for illicit substances. You proclaim human freedom, but are happy for the police in YOUR view not to tackle offensive behaviour, because YOU don't find it offensive. Now I've not assessed you in my professional capacity, but look up narcissism. This world is not about YOU, believe it or not, but as people move into stages of life, they fail to catch up so quickly with social change.....these people are often the vulnerable....and you know what?...YOU will be one of them at some point....when YOU don't fit the social norm, and its all confused or 'offensive' or 'upsetting'. You Sir, need to 'grow up', find some empathy and some social responsibility that doesn't revolve around you. Are you having a bad day? Ill ignore the overall aggressive and pathetic nature of your post, Your post fails to address much of the original point at all other than being a personal attack on myself (Help! Police! I'm being offended!). People are offended, I get offended over various things, offence happens all the time. The thing is I accept that offence because I believe we should live in a society that has the freedom to allow it! I am thinking of our country and it not becoming more of a pathetic nanny state with police arresting people left right and centre for having their damn feelings hurt. Like with drug laws, Like with Prison systems and like with this. I think and post what I think will be best for society, Not my damn self because emotion and hurt feelings have no place in such discussions. How is that narcissistic ? Edited November 12, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Taking the moral high ground and attempting to call someone a narcissist? Really? What moral high ground? Explain but be careful, you'll make yourself look foolish. Attempts at irony, so obvious I could choke on it, makes me think you've only just looked up the word 'narcissist', your thoughts would be that 'no-one' can use the word...making it tabboo.....odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Lets not try get too heated here guys, Feelings will be hurt and arrests could be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) I'm not in for the debate on this. Its not about 'war' or ex military, its about civic responsibility, not the 'norm'..civic resonsibilty. I've got bored of this talk years ago, I listen to people on their platforms making excuses for their behaviour through eloquence, clever linguistics...whatever. We have a society to add to, all of us and if you dismiss the 'empathic' side of things, this is theoretically when social morality starts to crack, I can present papers on this, but they'll only be disregarded as heresay. I've seen this on a microlevel, from a nucleus level, I just hate the soapbox players proclaiming they want freedom from the authority of social 'correctness', where as its the threads of our society, just not enough deep thought goes into these spouts and ejaculations of rhetoric. I understand exactly your point Kyska... but, your point would be valid if said plonker just burned the poppy because he is a **** and wanted some attention. If however he burned that poppy because he DOES find war abhorrent and feels that the glorification of the fallen just perpetuates an image that war and death are something to celebrate and be proud of, doesn't he have the right to say so, to make a peaceful gesture? I'm not defending him but I really can see both sides very clearly here. What you are suggesting is sounding very, dare I say, Marxist, if not quite Orwellian? Edited November 12, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Hang on.... I'm ex-military and whilst I find this slightly distasteful and if I'm honest, more than a little stupid, there are those out there that find the whole idea of war abhorrent, they feel that honouring the dead glorifies war (which it does) VIPA, usually sensible, the idea you suggest that honouring the dead 'glorifies war' is pure rubbish and cant - honouring the dead honours their sacrifice of all they had for others safety and freedom.. No one believes that "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" and hasnt since the first world war and then only cynically spoken by Rupert Brooke. With respect, ex military or not, disrespect for the dead is bad enough, in this context its unforgivable.and if repeated criminal. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Are you having a bad day? Ill ignore the overall aggressive and pathetic nature of your post, Your post fails to address much of the original point at all other than being a personal attack on myself (Help! Police! I'm being offended!). People are offended, I get offended over various things, offence happens all the time. The thing is I accept that offence because I believe we should live in a society that has the freedom to allow it! I am thinking of our country and it not becoming more of a pathetic nanny state with police arresting people left right and centre for having the damn feelings hurt. Like with drug laws, Like with Prison systems and like with this. I think and post what I think will be best for society, Not my damn self. It wasn't an attack on you, more your incited ideals. You don't get the extended picture, why does it make sense that something YOU are not offended by make it sensible and tangiable that no-one else will? Scenarios Jew family get swastikas painted on their front door?....(If you're not a Jew) It doesn't offend you....**** 'em Black family in a white dominant area...(if you're not black) their son/daughter gets called a balck ******* everytime they come home from school from the bloke with the paint brush in his hand...doesn't offend you...**** 'em. Gay couple...(assuming you're not gay) get homophobic harrassment everytime they leave the house from local youths....doesn't offend you...**** 'em Singular, offensive, behaviour, offensive to one person, offensive to hundreds...where is the difference? I'm not attacking you, don't go down that route, I just don't understand your stance other than pitting it against your platform that I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 VIPA, usually sensible, the idea you suggest that honouring the dead 'glorifies war' is pure rubbish and cant - honouring the dead honours their sacrifice of all they had for others safety and freedom.. No one believes that "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" and hasnt since the first world war and then only cynically spoken by Rupert Brooke. With respect, ex military or not, disrespect for the dead is bad enough, in this context its unforgivable.and if repeated criminal. . Bloody Hell.... KES... I am honoured... you said I'm 'usually sensible' I'm quite choked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I understand exactly your point Kyska... but, your point would be valid if said plonker just burned the poppy because he is a **** and wanted some attention. If however he burned that poppy because he DOES find war abhorrent and feels that the glorification of the fallen just perpetuates an image that war and death are something to celebrate and be proud of, doesn't he have the right to say so, to make a peaceful gesture? I'm not defending him but I really can see both sides very clearly here. What you are suggesting is sounding very, dare I say, Marxist, if not quite Orwellian? Far, far from Marxist Vipa, burning a Poppy at that time isn't a 'gesture', its a premeditated act to make his/her point in the most shocking, media active way, with full intention of causing upset. I'd liken it to doing something really offensive at 'one' persons remeberance, I'm not overly rememberance proud but surely a bit of civic resonsibility tells you 'its not quite right to do this'. Thanks for the moderate post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) What moral high ground? Explain but be careful, you'll make yourself look foolish. Attempts at irony, so obvious I could choke on it, makes me think you've only just looked up the word 'narcissist', your thoughts would be that 'no-one' can use the word...making it tabboo.....odd. There was no attempt at irony. It is interesting though that you assume everyone is stupid. I was just suggesting you were desperately trying to claw an angle at the argument which is becoming increasingly clear. You didn't need me to point it out. Also, suggesting I would paint myself as a fool, you greatly underestimate me (off the back of that are you going to call me a narcissist too?) Edited November 12, 2012 by guest1957 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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