Amazed Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Kent is talking sense mate. If you use a ballistics calculator if only to get an Idea you will find the heaver better bc bullets hold ther own better at distance and will give you a more predictable arc and be affected less by the wind. I know things are not perfect using the computer but at least you get an idea of what's best for your application, before getting them from the shop and spending your time working up loads. All the best Karl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx10mike Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 yep kent i agree i would take kents advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyrus Posted November 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 I've used the nosler ballistic app on my phone, a 200yd zero, 300 max range. At 300yds with a 10mph side wind, both 40gr and 55gr rounds have just over 10" movement due to wind. The 40gr has 5" drop and the 55gr has a 7" drop. So going off those figures personally I would prefer to go with the lighter round, ok beyond those distance a heavier bullet might come into its own, but I won't be shooting further than 300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx10mike Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 good luck you will learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Fundamentally it depends what your gun shoots, if you have a weight you know works you are half way there, I've never had an issue with mine with 55grain blitz kings kills well and the load I use is flatter than my .243 load with 75 grn vmax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I've used the nosler ballistic app on my phone, a 200yd zero, 300 max range. At 300yds with a 10mph side wind, both 40gr and 55gr rounds have just over 10" movement due to wind. The 40gr has 5" drop and the 55gr has a 7" drop. So going off those figures personally I would prefer to go with the lighter round, ok beyond those distance a heavier bullet might come into its own, but I won't be shooting further than 300 when you can put 10 40gr rounds inside a 1" or even 2" circle at 300 yds this will be relevant take your ballistic calculator and leave it in the glove box. in the real non-digital world star ways laser beam bullets don't exist. unless you are shooting rounds at 4000fps "flatness" is of no relevance whatsoever. 90% of CF calibres have a MPBR of +/- and inch of each other between 0-300yds I dont no anyone who can shoot to the level of accuracy at the ranges that the trajectory begins to matter. I see lots that claim it....... (and no I am not one of them, I do not strive for same hole groups, shooting 1/2" groups at 100yds off a tripod and bench just proves your rifle can shoot. head shooting rabbits and foxes at 100 and 200yds respectively off stick in the dark on a windy rainy night proves the shooter can shoot) Listen to people who use these rounds day and night and have done for 20 odd years you will learn that the "benefits" of lighter, faster, "flatter" .224 rounds using more powder, more fouling and more throat erosion for little if any gain in the field are misguided. personally I use 50gr over 55gr but then mine is a .222 The retained energy is my biggest consideration, I see no benefits dropping to 40gr and they are no cheaper to buy (more expensive if you count the increase in powder required to achieve the same pressure) and if I do have to stretch out and shoot a fox at 300yds the energy when it gets there is a big consideration. the 50gr VMax has almost the same energy at 300yds as the 40gr has at 200yds play with your reloading and discover the limits of your rifle and you can easily overtake that figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 also depending on powder you have how much you can actually fit in the case, without compressing with varget you're limited to about 26-27 grains which is what my 55's have behind them so powder may well be the restriction if you are thinking of getting them going pretty fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I've used the nosler ballistic app on my phone, a 200yd zero, 300 max range. At 300yds with a 10mph side wind, both 40gr and 55gr rounds have just over 10" movement due to wind. The 40gr has 5" drop and the 55gr has a 7" drop. So going off those figures personally I would prefer to go with the lighter round, ok beyond those distance a heavier bullet might come into its own, but I won't be shooting further than 300 better to stop playing with it then, we can only offer the advice- but if your phone knows better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyrus Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 better to stop playing with it then, we can only offer the advice- but if your phone knows better Someone suggested using the app to see that the heavier bullets are better at range, so I did so. Going off the app I don't see how they are better?! I appreciate what your saying but surely if they where that bad each person who replied to this thread with there load would have said I've tried them but there rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Someone suggested using the app to see that the heavier bullets are better at range, so I did so. Going off the app I don't see how they are better?! I appreciate what your saying but surely if they where that bad each person who replied to this thread with there load would have said I've tried them but there rubbish i think we could go off at a tangent here about balistic programs, they depend on whats put into them and the degree of accuraccy of data and the ability to actually put it in. My mate told me some crazy figures last week out of one, i am sure it was a case of rubbish in rubbish out in that instance. the fact remains the hornet is designed with twist rates to suit 40grn the .222 normally produces the goods with 50 and the std twist .223 55 grn. shoot them both and see but you said you wished to economise. 40grn has become popular in the states coz they can be muzzle speed crazy at times and like to vapourise little critters. thats a lot different than Foxing in the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) Someone suggested using the app to see that the heavier bullets are better at range, so I did so. Going off the app I don't see how they are better?! I appreciate what your saying but surely if they where that bad each person who replied to this thread with there load would have said I've tried them but there rubbish I have tried them! They're rubbish! they were not as accurate, (they dont stabilise as well in rifles designed to shoot heavier bullets) they were noisier (more powder, had to run them faster) they were not noticeabley flatter (next to no difference in the real world 1/4" at 200yds with a 100yd zero) They dont hold the line in the wind as well I often shoot in They are too light for confident energy delivery at longer distances (and as such pushing through grass etc) I had foxes that didnt drop on the spot (see above) moved to 50gr and 9 out of 10 foxes preferred them that make more sense? but if you still think 40's will be better on you go Edited November 19, 2012 by Bewsher500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I've got to say that I found 55gr to be much better generally than 40's in my A-Bolt. If you're looking for economy you will also use less powder with a heavier bullet, yet the bullets cost pretty much the same regardless of weight. Drop is a constant, windage is a variable. Go with the round that bucks the wind as you'll find it easier to judge long shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well boys, I am going to give the 50s a try in my .223. I am not vane enough to think I have tried it all and the voice of experience speaks loudly to me here. The retained energy of the 50s would be of great advantage to me on the Coyote. I have been shooting 40s since I built the rifle and even specified a 14 twist especially for their use. But it will shoot 50s and 52s just as well albeit slower. The BC jump is appreciable between 40s and 50s going from .200 to .242 and that is huge in the wind. I have tried the 53 vmax which should be even better than the 50s in my Swift but 14T will not stabilize that long of a bullet. Thanks for the perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well boys, I am going to give the 50s a try in my .223. I am not vane enough to think I have tried it all and the voice of experience speaks loudly to me here. The retained energy of the 50s would be of great advantage to me on the Coyote. I have been shooting 40s since I built the rifle and even specified a 14 twist especially for their use. But it will shoot 50s and 52s just as well albeit slower. The BC jump is appreciable between 40s and 50s going from .200 to .242 and that is huge in the wind. I have tried the 53 vmax which should be even better than the 50s in my Swift but 14T will not stabilize that long of a bullet. Thanks for the perspective. Note "specified a 1-14 twist" Rus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Ok what would happen if I put 40g through my 1-9 twist 24" .223. Just intrested using 55g at the mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 it will either shoot or it won't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 it will either shoot or it won't I would try but 55g ppu sp's are working a treat in mine. You can only ask:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 if you are getting on well with 55's don't change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well at £10 a box and all in the black,will suit me at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyrus Posted November 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 I would try but 55g ppu sp's are working a treat in mine. You can only ask:-) That's interesting, your 1 in 9 twist barrel is designed for heavier bullets 63gr+ yet it is shooting lighter bullets with good accuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 That's interesting, your 1 in 9 twist barrel is designed for heavier bullets 63gr+ yet it is shooting lighter bullets with good accuracy Could be down to the man behind it. Couldnt resist that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Could be down to the man behind it. Couldnt resist that one. If a 1/4 moa capable shooter got hold of it a real difference could be seen. As with all things it depends were the weakest link lies. there are no certainties though a 1-9 is going to produce its very best above the 55 grn bullet though it will stabalise them ok for fox and vermin, it might even group with silly light 40's but even with that 1/4 moa shooter steering it and everything else on the gun in perfect order i shouldn't expect many 1/4 moa groups from such a bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted November 25, 2012 Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 Just been speaking to your mate on this matter Rus. what are you trying to achieve? muzzle speed is nothing of an advantage in what is a lower BC bullet. Basically it will be faster at your end than a 55 grn but take more wind and at some ranges the 55 will actually beat a 40 to the target end due to having a better ability to retain velocity. Nothing can beat gravity and very,very few foxes are missed due to giving the wrong drop allowance most errors like this are on windage estimates. The 40 could be expected to have more fragible results, certainly at shorter ranges - this can be a double edged sord though in itself though. My opinion are CCi benchrest or Fedral gold medal primers, Remmington are no real comparisom and yes primer choice makes a big difference in a load. Consistancy is key Perhaps I should bin all my Rem primers and buy CCI, shooting 2s and 3s with the Remmys it should be interesting to see what a good primer would do.(just ragging you Kent, any primer that goes bang isn't all bad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted November 25, 2012 Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) My experience dictates that too much twist is always better than too little as shown with the 53 vmax, Hornady rep says 12 twist and faster will do the trick. Edited November 25, 2012 by coyotemaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon6ppc Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 ive used 222,223, 22.250, 22ppc and i ave tried them all with 40 grain bullets as the thawt of a flat fast explosive round you ave to try.but they all did,nt shoot accurate enough for me to keep using them so i use mainly 55,s in them all now,some times 50,s there a bit slower a bit more drop but all can do around half inch at 100 yards which i can live with, cheers simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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