inca Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 they look like zombies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 disgusting, still support legalisation for the stated reasons. Off the streets, focus on rehab. All of these pictures are under our current system, seems to be working! Yep make it easier for them to get hold of the muck makes perfect sense........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 I bet the dealers didn't show them those pictures when they were giving out free samples to get them hooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 But you can do the same with the before and after for alcoholics - it might take a longer period but the end result isn't pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 But you can do the same with the before and after for alcoholics - it might take a longer period but the end result isn't pretty. very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Just so I'm clear on the proposal for cannabis: 1. Cannabis will be supplied by the pharmaceutical industry. 2. The government will tax the supply from the industry. 3. They won't tax the black market supply. 4. There will be some mechanism where people can buy the product produced from the pharma industry but as yet unknown. 5. The supply of a drug from the pharma industry will have to fall under the medicines directive and will need a prescription. 6. THC levels will have to be defined and limited for the industry product. 7. Statute will have to be changed to decriminalise possession of small amounts. 8. International treaties will have to be changed or we will have to go against them in order to allow the sale of a narcotic. 9. DUI and safe limits will need to be defined. 10. Declaration of use may be required for motoring insurance and or other licences. 11. Minimum age of use needs to be set. Just trying to see where we've got to. Don't forget that because there will still be a black market for cannabis and the other drugs then there will still be money spent on law enforcement and there will still be drug dealers making a lot of money from illegal drugs. These points rather undermine the arguments bandied about regarding stopping drug dealers profiting and saving on law enforcement. As previously said; if legal drugs are one penny more or harder to obtain the black market will continue to prevail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 so it comes down to pricing? the government would have to sell cheaper so theres no money in it for criminals and they move on to other crimes like they did before they all got into drugs would that possibly be the way it would go in the unlikely event its decriminalized? also im guessing a lot of customers may move on to legal outlets to avoid the criminal element as it seems this effects people of all classes. personally i cant see it legal here but i could be wrong theres been a lot of changes over the last 30 years could be a different place in another 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) As previously said; if legal drugs are one penny more or harder to obtain the black market will continue to prevail. Except, as with alcohol and tobacco, the illegal market will exist (always will) it will be a tiny portion of the market, the legal market will prevail. I bet the dealers didn't show them those pictures when they were giving out free samples to get them hooked. Very good point, a legal outlet will not do this. The drugs they do provide ,for the people who take it regardless of legality, will be cleaner and safer doses in a safer environment. And they will ask for ID, Doubt your local dealer will be so pleasant with teenagers. Yep make it easier for them to get hold of the muck makes perfect sense........ Harder for teenagers (legal outlets ask for ID, local dealer you want to keep in business doesn't). Adults are big boys and girls now, going to take it regardless. Might as well be safe clean and taxable Edited December 20, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Except, as with alcohol and tobacco, the illegal market will exist (always will) but the legal market will prevail. I agree there will be a hefty slice of the legal market. That is why this crackpot scheme is being considered. Wealthy people wanting to make money out of drug addicts. But your points about saving costs in policing and enforcement are blown out of the window unless you can guarantee that the legal side will totally kill off the black market drugs and of curse you can't. The size of the illegal cigarette and alcohol market is debatable in any case. You cannot quantify what you cannot see. I have some experience in this field and there is a lot more coming in to this country than the Government are prepared to admit to. A lot of the bigger seizures are down to pure luck, not intelligence lead operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I pretty much agree with every you said (thats a first!) except the last point of the first paragraph. A reduced market will still reduce costs, which is better than now. People are getting and will always get rich off addicts, I just consider tax paying, goverment regulated companies the less of two evils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Harder for teenagers (legal outlets ask for ID, local dealer you want to keep in business doesn't). Adults are big boys and girls now, going to take it regardless. Might as well be safe clean and taxable so by your own admission the young would only be able to get them from dealers illegally as they do now and for dealers to stay in business they would need to target those who couldn't buy legally. Where is this safe malarky coming from there is plenty of evidence drugs aren't safe at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Where is this safe malarky coming from there is plenty of evidence drugs aren't safe at all Well hey fag's and alcohol aint exactly on the 5 a day list are they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Well hey fag's and alcohol aint exactly on the 5 a day list are they we've travelled from canabis to meth amphetamine surely the latter you aren't suggesting is similar to alcohol and fags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 so by your own admission the young would only be able to get them from dealers illegally as they do now and for dealers to stay in business they would need to target those who couldn't buy legally. Where is this safe malarky coming from there is plenty of evidence drugs aren't safe at all The dealers market will be greatly reduced by adults purchasing legal drugs, Reducing the funding and market and thus reducing the chances of kids having access to a dealer as its not financial viable to be one (unlike now). And I meant safer, if somebody is going to take drugs (and prohibition won't stop that) I would rather they take drugs knowing exactly what's in it and correct usage/equipment than some drug cut with all sorts of **** too add weight and substance with dirty needles (massive fall in drug related HIV in Portugal) and all sorts of ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) The part I don't understand about that argument it is widely accepted that some point are violent when drunk, where as I've never seen a violent stoner. If Booze was discovered today, they'd make it illegal. In my experience, people who regularly smoke cannabis are more agressive when they are not stoned. They are paranoid and irresponsible. Cannabis does affect people psychologically so I have to agree with Evo. I don't agree with making it legal and I don't think it would boost the economy of our country if it was made legal. You will have an increase in illegal cannabis if it was to be made legal just like we have an increase in illegal tobbaco and alcohol. Which is actually more difficult to combat. ATB, Lee Edited December 20, 2012 by lee-kinsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 The dealers market will be greatly reduced by adults purchasing legal drugs If the legal market is the 60's flower power free love kit, I doubt it, especially when the dealers have the super skunk, street credit alone would cater for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 If the legal market is the 60's flower power free love kit, I doubt it, especially when the dealers have the super skunk, street credit alone would cater for that. Everything gets stronger over time, take todays trend for super strength shot's purposely designed to get people hammered in a short space of time ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Is it possible if you live in rural Wales or Norfolk that you are entirely detached from the problem areas enough to think this actually makes sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 If this comes off, which I doubt, do you think the Government is going to supply the super skunk that's kicking about now.? Nope.......though not.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I suppose if you lived in one of those area's you might be unaware of the problem's however the majority of the population dont so what exactly is your point ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Is it possible if you live in rural Wales or Norfolk that you are entirely detached from the problem areas enough to think this actually makes sense? Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 If this comes off, which I doubt, do you think the Government is going to supply the super skunk that's kicking about now.? Nope.......though not.. Would that be the same super skunk that you CAN buy in countries that have decriminalized cannabis ? assuming we copy someone else's system then yes it would be offered here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 the majority of the population is affected pretty much every urban area has issues and the crime that goes with it. The simple facts are you are only considering useage of the middle class who can afford them rather than the under class who cannot and who thieve to gain their supply. What you are effectively saying is the country can benefit from the proceeds of crime by taxing drugs but these people won't buy from legal sources when its still available cheaper on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 The illegal market will never disappear , the aim is to replace the majority of it with a legal regulated market. Prohibition does not address the issue either, People complain about the apparent results of legalisation even though prohibition fails to solve any of the complained about issues... its strange: "your idea can't fix x, y and z so let's keep doing the thing that's currently making x, y and z" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 the majority of the population is affected pretty much every urban area has issues and the crime that goes with it. The simple facts are you are only considering useage of the middle class who can afford them rather than the under class who cannot and who thieve to gain their supply. What you are effectively saying is the country can benefit from the proceeds of crime by taxing drugs but these people won't buy from legal sources when its still available cheaper on the street. Its simple maths ! if you collect revenue from the people who would use legal outlets you would not only save resources from not having to police them people but you would create more resources to police the criminal element. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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