Clayduster Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 The banks did not cause Britain's debt crisis, government spending did. The amount used to 'bail out' the three failed banking groups (and that's all there was - four after Gordon Brown dangled a knighthood in front of Victor Blank and duped him into leading Lloyds into the abyss as well) was infinitessimal compared to the quanities spent to create Brown's client state over the preceeding 11 years. And it was Brown again, guided by Ed Balls, who emasculated the Bank of England and disabled the system of banking regulation he inherited when he entered no.11 in order to increase the money supply through debt, ceate the illusion of presperity as a screen for massive tax increases and expand the public sector to 50% of the GDP, double what is sustainable. Blaming the banks for Britain's ruin is like allowing your house to become soaked in petrol and then blaming the irresponsible combustibility of fuel when it inevitably catches fire. The Conservatives were not to blame. Mrs Thatcher was not to blame. It was, as ever, Labour and the blind unthinking pursuit of worn out, discredited, distructive Marxist economics. Really and global banks rolling up toxic instruments to sell them off as investments at ten times their true value is nothing to do with that. Encouraging people to borrow money regardless of their ability to pay back nothing to do with that. 1996-97 315.8 39.9 . 1997-98 322.0 38.2 . 1998-99 330.9 37.2 . 1999-00 342.9 36.3 . 2000-01 341.5 34.5 . 2001-02 389.2 37.7 . 2002-03 420.9 38.5 . 2003-04 455.2 39.3 . 2004-05 492.5 40.5 . 2005-06 523.7 41.2 . 2006-07 550.2 40.9 Above figures show public sector spending as percent of GDP throughout Browns tenure as Chancellor, why would he move away from superb figures like that if it was under his control? Public borrowing goes from £479bn in 2007 to 703Bn in 2009 in order to shore up the Financial Services industry. That's a sum of £220 Bn which is nearly equivalent to a third of the public spending pot. Ofcourse it will get even worse, by a factor of 3 possibly, as we take on the RBS and Lloyds liabilities. That means that for every £2 we spend on educating our children, looking after our sick and elderly, supporting and funding our brave soldiers in Afghanistan, paying our Police to keep us safe in our beds, paying the old age pension and lots lots more we now have to find another £1 to subsidise the banking system. (That could of course become £3 from every £2 we spend on genuine public services). Sounds to me like the private financial sector is failing us massively and that is why the public sector always has to step up to the plate and rescue us from the worst aspects of Capitalism. It must be the biggest disaster of any modern, or otherwise, capitalist regime. Yet all we hear from Herr Cameron is let?s put more effort (and money) into magical creative entrepreneurial private hands and lets cut back on all the above services in order to keep supporting the wealthy few who of course were the ones who would have lost the most in the event of a collapse of the Banking System. Same old story; the ones at the bottom of the pile have to sacrifice in order to keep the ones at the top in comfort and control and we will vote in our millions to keep it that way and woe betide anyone who suggests that it should be otherwise. And the plebs continue to fight each other over the rotting corpse of a once great country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Recently, while I was working in the flower beds in the front garden, my neighbours stopped to chat as they returned home from walking their dog. During our friendly conversation, I asked their 12 year old daughter what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be Prime Minister one day. Both of her parents – Labour Party voters, I know this because they have Labour posters outside their house at election time — were standing there, so I asked her: "If you were Prime Minister what would be the first thing you would do?" She replied, "I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people." Her parents beamed with pride! "Wow, what a worthy goal!" I said. "But you don't have to wait until you're Prime Minister to do that!" I told her. "What do you mean?" she replied. So I told her: "You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, trim my hedge and I'll pay you £50. Then you can go down to the Town Centre, find a homeless man and can give him the £50 to buy food." She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, "Why doesn't the homeless man come over and do the work and you can just pay him the £50?" I said, "Welcome to the Conservative Party." Her parents aren't speaking to me any more. True story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev56 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Q Who do you vote for ans labour Q why's that ans always voted labour like my dad and my granddad and my great granddad Q but for what reason ans because we've always voted labour Q Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Public sector has to step up?. Please....... 1 in ten coppers have second jobs, the Chief Fire officer in merseyside has reduced his headcount by nearly half and still cut the number of deaths by fire in half. The public sector headcount grew by over a million under Gormless for no real benefit. I chopped our window cleaner after i discovered he was also working as a fireman. He is a brave chap for sure but he already has one job. Now have a dedicated window cleaner. 10/10 for him trying though. I agree that the banks did over lend and then parcelled the debt up but a large number of our population spanked credit cards and debts, taking equity out of houses etc. The banks didn't ecourage us to do this, we did it of our own accord. Now reality has set in, a large number are bleating... The govt had no choice to bail out the banks, had there been a run on them, the consequences would be unthinkable. HAd the banking system collapsed, we would have all lost out, not just those at the top. If you don't like capitalism, live in a socialist country. Tony Ben, Fatty two jags and Scargill to name 3 are socialists but live high on the Hog. Ben handed his title back but not his money. Very easy to have a concience when you have a safe pile in the bank... Edited January 10, 2013 by keg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Q Who do you vote for ans labour Q why's that ans always voted labour like my dad and my granddad and my great granddad Q but for what reason ans because we've always voted labour Q Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Doncaster for you as well ,nuggets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Public sector has to step up?. Please....... 1 in ten coppers have second jobs, the Chief Fire officer in merseyside has reduced his headcount by nearly half and still cut the number of deaths by fire in half. The public sector headcount grew by over a million under Gormless for no real benefit. I chopped our window cleaner after i discovered he was also working as a fireman. He is a brave chap for sure but he already has one job. Now have a dedicated window cleaner. 10/10 for him trying though. I agree that the banks did over lend and then parcelled the debt up but a large number of our population spanked credit cards and debts, taking equity out of houses etc. The banks didn't ecourage us to do this, we did it of our own accord. Now reality has set in, a large number are bleating... The govt had no choice to bail out the banks, had there been a run on them, the consequences would be unthinkable. HAd the banking system collapsed, we would have all lost out, not just those at the top. If you don't like capitalism, live in a socialist country. Tony Ben, Fatty two jags and Scargill to name 3 are socialists but live high on the Hog. Ben handed his title back but not his money. Very easy to have a concience when you have a safe pile in the bank... I wonder how bad it would really have been if banks would have been allowed to collapse. Initially there would have been chaos but maybe the solution would have come from the chaos. Like this ludicrous welfare state that needs stopping, initial chaos when no more free money is doled out and then a change when people know that the gravy train has ended. People have adapted for thousands of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayduster Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Keep believing the thieves, I will live where I want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Public borrowing goes from £479bn in 2007 to 703Bn in 2009 in order to shore up the Financial Services industry. That's a sum of £220 Bn which is nearly equivalent to a third of the public spending pot. Ofcourse it will get even worse, by a factor of 3 possibly, as we take on the RBS and Lloyds liabilities. You seem to be quite specific there. What RBS and Lloyds liabilities are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Really and global banks rolling up toxic instruments to sell them off as investments at ten times their true value is nothing to do with that. Encouraging people to borrow money regardless of their ability to pay back nothing to do with that. Before Brown became Chancellor the Bank of England had the authority to issue public warnings to fanancial institutions whose activities caused it concern. Brown stopped all that and set up his tripartite regulation system dividing authority between the BE, the FSA and the treasury, or himself. Since no partner in this coterie could act unilaterally the final authority rested in effect with himself. He kept studiously quite even while Fred the Shred, a close friend of new labour, was destroying RBS. The BE knew all about the unfolding disaster in Scottish banking but without the sanction of the Dear Leader they were obliged to keep quiet as indeed they were in the case of Northern Rock whose ruin was ably administered by its chief executive Adam Applegarth, who coincidently was also a close friend of the Dear Leader's party. The sub-prime crisis, the ludicrously obvious error of lending money to people who cannot pay it back, was the brainchild of one Bill Clinton, who with all the economic nous common in liberals with inherited wealth, thought it would be a slendid idea if America's poor could be encouraged to borrow their way out of poverty. So he passed the Credit Equality Act, which effectively made it illegal to refuse credit to anyone. Rather than face ruin in the courts, American financial institutions lent money to any morbidly obese, Krispy Kreme addicted unmarried mother of six who asked for it to supplement her welfare cheques, and buried these toxic loans in 'investment vehicles' and flogged them off on the international markets. Thanks Bill, thanks Gordon. And Unapalomablanca is right: the banks should have been allowed to fail, that is how waste is squeezed out of the system. They were bailed out purely for political reasons. Oh, and public spending figures as a percentage of GDP of between 35 and 41% are not superb, they are catastrophic. And they are out of date: parts of Scotland and the North East of England are running at over 50%. Edited January 10, 2013 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Well this is no fun anymore.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayduster Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 You seem to be quite specific there. What RBS and Lloyds liabilities are you referring to? RBS 2012 http://www.business7.co.uk/business-news/scottish-business-news/2012/02/24/almost-two-thirds-of-rbs-s712bn-asset-reduction-linked-to-derivatives-106408-23763415/ http://www.investors.rbs.com/download/announcements/Interim_Results_2012.pdf LLoyds http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/media/pdfs/investors/2012/2012_LBG_HalfYear_Results.pdf Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 RBS 2012 http://www.business7...06408-23763415/ http://www.investors...esults_2012.pdf LLoyds http://www.lloydsban...ear_Results.pdf Enjoy Yes I happen to know the RBS balance sheet quite well. I thought you had uncovered something that I wasn't aware of. You seemed quite specific that the UK government would need to take these liabilities onto it's books. (quote "as we take on the RBS and Lloyds liabilities"). I'll be quite specific and say that we won't have to. Anyway we have digressed a lot. Maggie was great. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Well this is no fun anymore.... Why the truth hurts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Why the truth hurts No, it was a debate about thatcher, Now it's all figures, off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Lets keep on bashing Labour, I like bashing Labour. They are so weak and disgustingly shallow, lacking in any principles or original thought, its like they were put on this earth to be bashed (can't think of any other reason they are here). A party conceived in class hatred and worn out political dogma it has systematically betrayed the people it was created to represent, the working class. Edited January 10, 2013 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 A party conceived in class hatred and worn out political dogma it has systematically betrayed the people it was created to represent, the working class. Not only that,but many of its 'leading lights' have become everything they despised about the moneyed Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Proud to be a Thatcher child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Lets keep on bashing Labour, I like bashing Labour. Me too. Diane Abbott. As far left as you can go in the UK and she sends her child to a private school. Do as I say, not as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Not only that,but many of its 'leading lights' have become everything they despised about the moneyed Tories. And Maggie wasn't even moneyed. A shop keeper's daughter and scholarship girl, brought up a methodist with a strict work ethic. A proper Tory. Some say she was the best prime minister since Churchill. I disagree. She was the best since Robert Peel. Or just the best. EDIT: to get right back on topic, I didn't watch the film. I've always admired Margaret Thatcher and fancied Meryl Streep. That film risked all sorts of confusion. Edited January 10, 2013 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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