drewrix Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hello New to this forum as an established pigeon shooter however I have just started rabbiting and I am finding that my Air Arms S400 doesnt have the range and I am struggling to get close enough to take a safe shot. I am now looking into getting a FAC ticket and buying something like a .22 rimfire or someone has even mentioned the .17HMR ?? ... I would like to hear any thoughts on which one would be better suited. Many Thanks Drewrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzyboi Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 I asked a similar question on the Airgun BBS forums, i got this reply... .22lr is rimfire. Good for small vermin, I use it for close/medium range stuff, always moderated, and always with subsonics - though you can get supersonic loads too. Since I got my HMR, I use it less than I did. Is capable to 100m easily in the right hands, but tends to get used to 0-60/80m as an average, I guess, by anyone who also has something bigger or faster. .17HMR is still rimfire, but a smaller, flatter, faster calibre, capable of 150m+ with a decent shooter. Based on necked down .22WMR (magnum) cartridge. Not silent, as all ammo for it is supersonic, so expect a "crack" even with a mod. My favourite rimfire now...use it for nearly everything except lamping near houses where noise is an issue at night. IMHO, safer calibre too, as I've never had a richochet, of which I've had plenty with a .22LR .22CF is any of several available centrefire calibres from the baby .22 Hornet through to the .22-250, which is a necked down .243win case and the most powerful of them. Much faster, far more powerful, can easily kill at a mile, needs lots more space and are far more expensive to run. Generally the minimum some forces will accept if you want to shoot fox (Mine won't list either my .22lr or my HMR for fox), but also considered by some forces to be "overkill" (Which is b*llocks) for vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewrix Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Thanks Dazzy I have a few pieces of land for rabbiting .... one of which is a 300 acre farm and I also have a golf course which is about 100 acres ... would I have any problems getting an FAC ticket for a .22 rim fire or .17HMR with this type of land ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davo Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Have to congratulate you dazzyboi on a great response to a question. Its the kind of response anybody seeking knowledge and information on a given subject is looking for, instead of the all to common 'do a search', or 'its been done a thousand times', brigade. How refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Thanks Dazzy I have a few pieces of land for rabbiting .... one of which is a 300 acre farm and I also have a golf course which is about 100 acres ... would I have any problems getting an FAC ticket for a .22 rim fire or .17HMR with this type of land ? If you have a lot of rabbits to sort then the silent option is the best approach ......A sound moderated .22lr firing subsonic ammo (Less than the speed of sound )is quieter than most legal limit Air rifles .Imo it's a 60 yd tool because of the consistancy of the subsonics as you get the odd flyer .......Stretch it further and your guarenteed richochet's no matter how good your markmanship ..........A constant firing of a sound moderated .17HMR (Hornady magnum rimfire )will cause unwanted attention from nieghbouring dwelling's but this calibre comes into it's own on lamp shy or land that is shot reguarly as for a 100 yd zero will give you 25 - 125 yds of flat shooting with no adjustment being made for bullet drop . To summerise,My opinion only .22 LR is ideal for shooting from a vehicle where you have a large amount of land to cover and can be made silent . FAC Air Rifle 30 + ft lb, More expensive to buy but more versitile and in the right hands as good as the LR and less likely to ricochet should you miss. .17 HMR is the best of the lot but I advise you to have a Rifle that'll give you a silent option as well . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 hello and drewrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzyboi Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 As regards to the land you are using, the police must approve it first, reason being is that you can easily fire off an air rifle on a piece of land because more than likely it will run out of steam and drop off, or if it hits a hedge row it will slow down the pellet or even stop it. Some of the rifles mentioned above have the velocity or range to shoot through fences, hedgerows, if your on a boundry there could be a great risk of the bullet travelling further than the boundry of the land you are shooting on, putting a potential risk of what might be on the otherside of the boundry (House, road etc). I shoot on a 300 acre farm which is police approved for using rifles on so you should be fine, aslong it has a large perimeter and you dont shoot towards boundries etc. Have to congratulate you dazzyboi on a great response to a question. Its the kind of response anybody seeking knowledge and information on a given subject is looking for, instead of the all to common 'do a search', or 'its been done a thousand times', brigade. How refreshing. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Pat Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Get both, cover all situations. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 to PW If you get the chance, fill in your profile particularly location, as this can often help with advise regarding the .22LR vs .17HMR debate. The reason being that some counties favour the .17HMR over the .22LR and vice versa. Anyway, i'm with Deadeye Ive on this one, though I will add. The obvious advantage to a rimfire over an FAC airgun is the price and running of. As Ive mentiones though, ricoche can be a real problem with the .22LR as it will skip off water, hard ground even a rabbits head. So its important to ensure you have good safe backstops. Its does offer the extra range you want and having experienced legal limit airguns, you should soon be able to get used to its morter style trajectory. The .17HMR is a lazy rifle, as has been said, it provides a very flat trajectory out to 125 yards. The downside is always the noise but with moderation, its reduced to a short crack. Rather like the sound of a ruler being slapped on a desk. However, it is a far safer round if you use the V-Max style bullets, as they break up the minute they hit anything. With the land you have, I wouldnt imagine you having any problems with either choice. I have both in my cabinet but rely mainly on the .17HMR. But this suits well as I also take the occasional fox (75 yards) with it as well. I would like to say, Davo the forum has a wealth of information stored in its threads and posts. Whilst it is nice to get a quick answer, more detailed information can be sought from the threads within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_HMR Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Why does nobody shoot the .22wmr anymore?? Its my favourite round for rabbits and foxes using v-max bullets with it proiveds a very flat tradjectory out to 150yards ++ and more knock down power than a .17 Also i dont know if they're available much in england but a .17hm2 is a fantastic rabbit gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckytrigger Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Hi mate, ive got a 22lr and a 17hmr but find that i use the 22lr much more for lamping as its cheap to 'run' and is so much quieter than the '17' ( a consideration if you shoot near occupied buildings). You can often manage quick multiple kills before the bunnies realise you are shooting at them. I love the hmr but have often hit one or two then the rest have scarpered.. My hmr really comes into its own for long range crows Just to add there is no livestock on the 900 acres i shoot on but even on soft ground including newly plowed fields i have had ricochets with the 22 so you have to be extra carefull and know your back stops especially at night.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davo Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Totally agree with your'e comments AXE. I've spent many, many hours going through previous threads and have learned a great deal and cleared up even more I was unsure about. The point I was trying to make is that, sometimes an individual has allready extensively searched this forum and others for the answers they seek without finding results or an answer they fully understand and having done so myself it is slightly disheartening to be met with the 'Do a search' response. I am in no way bringing anybody down or criticizing the forum, if I didn't like it i would just leave and not contribute, my observations may come over as negative but they are not intended that way, I applauded the reply to a question of which the reply I felt was very consise and informative. I'm very happy with the forum and its content and would hope to become a long standing member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 It has been discussed to death but hey theres still room for more. I've used both My brother has a .22LR and I subsequently got the HMR. The .22 is more like an airgun and the HMR is more like a centre fire rifle in my mind. I don't like the .22 because of the ricochet aspect anything that zings away off grass land is just not pleasant to shoot at rabbits where you can be taking a lot of shots and want fast shots. I have heard of people having the HMR ricochet but to me there will be little left of the Vmax round to travel far and it certainly won't ricochet after passing through a rabbit like the .22. I shoot mostly from a vehicle and the HMR means I can cover 150 yards from the tracks round the farm I lamp on so we don't need to travel far on the fields which is handy when its wet. The HMR also gives you far more killing ability and accuracy. Wind can be an issue but no more IMHO than the .22 if its windy you just don't take rabbits as far away and allow a bit for it. Since getting it my brother has stopped bringing out his rifle which says it all to me, Its lovely especially at night to place the cross hairs on the head and know that thats it. With the .22 you need far more distance judging and allowance which at night can be difficult. If you get it wrong with the .22 which everybody does once in a while you'll get a screaming injured rabbit. With the HMR if you get it wrong it still kills quickly due to the shear amount of damage the round does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewrix Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Wow .... what a fantastic response .... I am glad I started using this forum .... thanks for all your replies and it certainly has given me some food for thought .... Axe ... I will sort my profile later tonight when i get in from work .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down South Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Hi drewrix, I'm another shooter with .22 lr and .17 HMR. The .22 is used for rabbit clearance, semi auto from a vehicle is a lethal tool. Lots of rabbits can be shot very quickly and for just a few p per round. Ricochets are always a worry as they can fly in any direction. Shooting near property and live stock etc is out of the question.( see luckytriggers post). The .17 HMR is used once the .22 has done its stuff, getting those jumpy rabbits at longer ranges or as mentioned before the occasional fox. You can pay 20p per round so you need to aim well. I find that I rarely shoot it over 100 yds at night but its is a a good killer at that range. Just a thought, if you find the sound of a moderated .17 is going to be a problem then maybe you shouldn't be shooting there in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzyboi Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Im aiming towards the .17HMR but im not overly keen on the loudness that people are making them out to be, is there anyway of getting the gun silenced. I think it would be the better option as far as range goes (100 odd yards) and the likelyness of a ricochet. What is the maximum range that a .22 could produce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefman Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 You can silence them down to practically eliminate muzzle blast, it's the sonic crack you can't control. Reefman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzyboi Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 You can silence them down to practically eliminate muzzle blast, it's the sonic crack you can't control.Reefman Is the sonic crack the sound it produces when the bullet hits the target? or is it from the speed of the bullet flying through the air. I just need to know if its something that will send all the rabbits bolting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Its the noise as it goes through the air, Its a very pronounced crack which if you safely stand downrange of a shot is peculiar as you can't tell where its come from. So all the rabbits tend to do is stick their heads up and not run. i've regularly shot ones sitting next to each other with mine. The .22 though quieter still has quite a smack when it hits the rabbit so isn't as silent as made out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretboy111 Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Yeah ive shot 4 or five which arent far apart from each other, the crack doesnt really bother the rabbits and its not that loud to disturb people. I usually lamp in partnership with my mate and his .22 so he takes the close ones and i take the long ones, works well, Now a .223 has a crack to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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