GingerCat Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) busi·ness /ˈbiznis/ Noun A person's regular occupation, profession, or trade. An activity that someone is engaged in. Synonyms trade - affair - job - work - occupation - concern An activity someone is engaged in , not necessarily their job, reading this form is an activity i am engaged in. Edited February 6, 2013 by GingerCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Are you sure? Here is the full section, either way I have my opinion and I think the law is quite clear, at least to me. Interpretation. (1)In this Act, the expression "firearm" means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes— (a)any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon as aforesaid or not; and (b)any component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon; and ©any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon;and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of, and accessories to, firearms of that description. Apologies, the final part of sec 57(1) is what I meant - I've underlined it. Although, that should have been fairly obvious as that's the part which deals with the definition of 'firearm'. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 My take is that the part. U are refering to is simply saying a a section 1 firearm is à section 1 firearm and not a a section 2 or 5. As they are covered under the relevant section. I woildnt want to test this in court and be on the wrong end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 busi·ness /ˈbiznis/ Noun A person's regular occupation, profession, or trade. An activity that someone is engaged in. Synonyms trade - affair - job - work - occupation - concern An activity someone is engaged in , not necessarily their job, reading this form is an activity i am engaged in. Yes, but by using the wording 'by way of trade or business' it means for financial gain, profit, occupation etc. It isn't simply referring to something you happen to be doing as in 'I was going about my lawful busines walking along the street'. Think about it, if it did then it would emcoumpass every single situation you could ever be in with a component part and in doing that the wording would render its self pointless beause you could never avail your self of the exemption. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 My take is that the part. U are refering to is simply saying a a section 1 firearm is à section 1 firearm and not a a section 2 or 5. As they are covered under the relevant section. I woildnt want to test this in court and be on the wrong end of it. No, read it again. It defines what 'firearm' means in the act. It is 'a weapon capable of discharging, etc....' and also, any component part of such a weapon. This is why a barrel is a firearm in its own right. However, after that it says that if a weapon is excluded by section 1 frm the scope of section 1 (ie: excluded from needing a firearm certificate under that section) then component parts of that weapon are excluded from the definition of 'firearm' in section 57(1) and are not firearms in their own right. Hence, you do not need a certificate for a pair of shotgun barrels as shotguns are excluded from section 1 so their component parts are not firearms in their own right. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 It normally means the dictionary definition unless otherwise defined. Have a look here for the real world interpretation if firearm etc, not going to post the whole lot as it too big http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 No, read it again. It defines what 'firearm' means in the act. It is 'a weapon capable of discharging, etc....' and also, any component part of such a weapon. This is why a barrel is a firearm in its own right. However, after that it says that if a weapon is excluded by section 1 frm the scope of section 1 (ie: excluded from needing a firearm certificate under that section) then component parts of that weapon are excluded from the definition of 'firearm' in section 57(1) and are not firearms in their own right. Hence, you do not need a certificate for a pair of shotgun barrels as shotguns are excluded from section 1 so their component parts are not firearms in their own right. J. I think it means its covered under another section such as section 2 or 5 after all there would only be section 1 or nothing so I could have a rocket launcher or mortar without licence as according to your interpretation they are not firearms and hence need to licence. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 If in doubt, don't hand it out. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 If in doubt, don't hand it out. Simples. BRAVO !! Sound advice ! What i said before Who on here in this conversation is Qualified to Give advice on Firearms Law You'd look a Right Charlie in the courts and your defence is J L of Pigeon watch said it was OK !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Another thing, it is Really easy to ****** up your shot gun by taking it to the "Chap" down the road to "Have a tinker" If only you saw how many shotguns that come through my hands with tell tale signs of "Gun smiths" I cant complain i make a few quid out of plonker smithing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Sound words of advice there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 You will find J is right and most of the other posters are talking uneducated ********. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 You will find J is right and most of the other posters are talking uneducated ********. And your Qualified to give advice on Firearms Law ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 See section 57(1) of the 1968 Act." The Clue is in the Date ! Section 57 of the 1968 ! act has been superseded I'll find the Exact Dates and New Laws regarding sale or transfer of "Pressure bearing" Section Two "Component" parts from my Friend the Firearms law Expert, who incidently IS Qualified to give advice on All aspects of Firearms Law So it IS Against the Law to Give Sell or Loan "Pressure bearing" Section Two shotgun parts to an Non License holder (Or Non RFD Holder) Wb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 So it IS Against the Law to Give Sell or Loan "Pressure bearing" Section Two shotgun parts to an Non License holder (Or Non RFD Holder) Wb I'm afraid the firearms expert at BASC who Posts on the SD forum disagree with you, and I trust his and my opinion over yours. Copy of message to/from BASC below. Hopefully this puts the issue to bed, I suspect it won't though. As I suggested a few pages ago on this thread, contact them and ask them yourself. ---Quote (Originally by rarms)--- Hi, Could you please clarify for me whether components of a sec.2 shotgun are controlled parts. i.e. do I need a shotgun certificate to have possession of only a component part. Barrel or action etc... I don't believe I do, but please advise. many thanks ---End Quote--- you do not need a shotgun certificate for component pressure bearing parts. You only need one for a fully assembled shotgun but that said you cant acquire all the bits fir a shotgun and have it split up in your house and say you dont have a shotgun. In other words its ok to buy spare barrel sets for example and you wont need a certificate for them. hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm afraid the firearms expert at BASC who Posts on the SD forum disagree with you, and I trust his and my opinion over yours. Copy of message to/from BASC below. Hopefully this puts the issue to bed, I suspect it won't though. As I suggested a few pages ago on this thread, contact them and ask them yourself. ---Quote (Originally by rarms)--- Hi, Could you please clarify for me whether components of a sec.2 shotgun are controlled parts. i.e. do I need a shotgun certificate to have possession of only a component part. Barrel or action etc... I don't believe I do, but please advise. many thanks ---End Quote--- you do not need a shotgun certificate for component pressure bearing parts. You only need one for a fully assembled shotgun but that said you cant acquire all the bits fir a shotgun and have it split up in your house and say you dont have a shotgun. In other words its ok to buy spare barrel sets for example and you wont need a certificate for them. hope this helps It would be Very interesting to find out who this BASC firearms expert is ! Obviously a different one to the Two i asked Yesterday on the BASC stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 JonathanL is absolutely correct in everything he says and I`m a retired police firearms/licensing officer just in case you were going to ask what my qualifications were. Incidentally, the BASC firearms authority quoted above was probably Bill Harriman, the scourge of many an errant and over zealous police firearms licensing department. And he too is correct, as you would expect. A friend of mine has just had a punt gun built by an engineering firm. At the moment work on the barrel and stock was completed those parts were removed from the engineers custody prior to completing the lock work so that at no time did he have the complete gun, or all its unassembled parts together in one place. The engineer has no license of any description and he commits absolutely no offences. You can pass your gun barrels to your uncertificated mate for re blacking with absolute impunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) It would be Very interesting to find out who this BASC firearms expert is ! Obviously a different one to the Two i asked Yesterday on the BASC stand I would guess he is not a different one, as he did not respond to my PM until late in the evening presumably after returning from the show. He is a new guy to BASC, used to be an FLO I think from memory. They post on The Stalking Directory forum simply as The BASC Firearms dept. Did the two people you asked put their opinion in writing? Either way, hopefully we can put this issue to bed now before any others read this and get the wrong legal stand point in their head. P.s. ironic sig line! Edited February 10, 2013 by rarms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 See section 57(1) of the 1968 Act." The Clue is in the Date ! Section 57 of the 1968 ! act has been superseded I'll find the Exact Dates and New Laws regarding sale or transfer of "Pressure bearing" Section Two "Component" parts from my Friend the Firearms law Expert, who incidently IS Qualified to give advice on All aspects of Firearms Law So it IS Against the Law to Give Sell or Loan "Pressure bearing" Section Two shotgun parts to an Non License holder (Or Non RFD Holder) Wb No it hasn't. The clue is in the fact that the official website containing current UK legislation does not show it as having been amended or repealed. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 well wabbit considering your an rfd not knowing the rules is shocking IMO,,never mind suppose you have to make money somehow but looks like its perfectly legal to re blue your buddies barrels when not having a cert as long as its only the barrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 And your Qualified to give advice on Firearms Law ? What do you consider 'qualified' to be? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 What do you consider 'qualified' to be? J. At Last you answer Somebody who has Studied Law of some sort maybee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 well wabbit considering your an rfd not knowing the rules is shocking IMO,,never mind suppose you have to make money somehow but looks like it’s perfectly legal to re blue your buddies barrels when not having a cert as long as its only the barrels Section 57 was a 1968 act which has been revised in 1982, 88, 91, 92, 94, 97, 98 and the most up to date is 2002 I know only too well with Transport Law (which I have Studied and gained Qualifications in) it’s extremely complicated and changes on a monthly basis If you’re not a 100% up to speed with it you’re best not quoting "Bits" of it claiming to be a Professional I'm NOT qualified in Firearms Law, I still maintain I personally Wouldn’t give/sell/loan Shotgun Barrels or any other Pressure bearing Section Two part to anybody other than an RFD or Shotgun licence holder because I feel it’s Wrong, possibly against the law and slightly irresponsible giving gun parts to a Non trained or Qualified person to Repair ! So when you’re Ribs pop off or your barrel Bursts don’t come running to me asking me if I know a good Gunsmith Would you take your family car to a non qualified "Car repairer”? Now have a read of the 2002 HO Firearms Law guidance to the Police, read it all and see if you can find the Quoted "Bits" on here They look a little different! "Well wabbit considering your an RFD not knowing the rules is shocking IMO" SHOCKING!!!! Really????? And you would trust any tom **** or harry with your Firearm/Shotgun parts? I find that Worrying!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 1.6 The Secretary of State and the Scottish Ministers attach great importance to the consistent administration of the Acts, as does the Association of Chief Officers of Police. All forces should seek to comply with the advice and guidance and follow the procedures set out in this document. However, chief officers of police are the ultimate authority responsible for the administration of the legislation in their force area, and it may be necessary to depart from the guidance when each case is assessed on its merits and the circumstances justify such a course of action. In such circumstances, chief officers for the force concerned will need to be able to justify their decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 At Last you answer Somebody who has Studied Law of some sort maybee At last?? I'm hardly a shrinking violet when it comes to answering posts round here, you know. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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