welsh1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 The state does, whether we like it or not. As I pointed out further up the thread, it isn't your body when you are dead as you have no power over it and you cannot dictate, even now, what happens to it. And, to be realistic, it makes no difference to you what is done with it because you don't exist any more. From a pragmaic point of view; why should the state waste so much money educating people to the benefits of organ donation when all it needs to do is to inform people that if they don't like it all they need to is tick the 'no' box? J. Go back and read what i have said in the past on this thread,as i cannot be bothered to type it all out again,but do you trust the nhs to do the right thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Go back and read what i have said in the past on this thread,as i cannot be bothered to type it all out again,but do you trust the nhs to do the right thing? What's the 'wrong' thing though? If we have an opt-out system then the worst they can do is to take organs from someone who has opted out. That, in its self, is really of little relevance as the person is dead anyway. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 So while this thread is resurrected lets have a quick look at who actually carries a donor card,after all most agree on this thread that they will give their parts when they die,so are you talk or do you actually follow your convictions. It's quite simple if you have said you would donate your parts then you should already be carrying a card,so lets see it,after all it will be in your wallet. Here's mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 How about we change it to this.Only registered organ donors (and minors) can receive organ donations?There, you are either sorted, or you are not a hypocrite!Jobs jobbed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) If there's an opt out what is the big deal? Just say "no". After initially thinking big bad Government coercing me into doing something against my will the argument that swung me the other way was that if I wish to receive an organ transplant then I'd better be willing to offer mine up. Fair point, one I can't argue against. Edited July 2, 2013 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 How about we change it to this. Only registered organ donors (and minors) can receive organ donations? There, you are either sorted, or you are not a hypocrite! Jobs jobbed! my argument is not of the benefits of organ donation ,but of the way it would be open to abuse and the fact that the state has made up your mind for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincs1963 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Help yourself, I'll be dead and won't give a monkeys. Nice to think the dead can give life to the living. Well, that would be the less selfish dead though eh? Well put sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 my argument is not of the benefits of organ donation ,but of the way it would be open to abuse and the fact that the state has made up your mind for you. Sadly Welsh 1 in our so called democracy the state is all too often making up their minds on us . I have an old school mate who smoked like a chimney at school & through out his life & he is on the waiting list , but it was his choice to smoke & its ours to carry a donor card . The sooner artificial organs are perfected the better & lets all hope it will come soon what ever our points of view are . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 How about we change it to this. Only registered organ donors (and minors) can receive organ donations? There, you are either sorted, or you are not a hypocrite! Jobs jobbed! Agree but with the alteration that we go with the opt-out system. If you opt-out you don't get any organs of you need them. That way everyone who makes the choice to out-out is directly influencing their own lives. If you keep the current opt-in system then somone who needs an orgam but isn't a donor could plead ignorance or that they were really, honestly meaning to get round to doing it but modern life is so complicated, etc, they never got round to it. The act of physically having to opt-out might concentrate the mind somewhat. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 The state does not have a right to tell me what to do with my body. Have a read of the thread,i have given various reasons why we should not go down this road. The way forward is education and making it the done thing so more volunteer,the government can spend vast amounts of money on rubbish when they want you to accept something, well they should do the same with organ donation. when your dead what the hell difference does it matter? if you would rather feed the worms or a fire than help someone not so lucky in life, then it shows a selfishness par excellence KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 my argument is not of the benefits of organ donation ,but of the way it would be open to abuse and the fact that the state has made up your mind for you. It hasn't made up your mind for you. If you don't want to donate then say so. How can that be open to abuse? If you mean that they miught take them any way then so what? They could take them from someone who isn't an organ doner already if they were so minded so I don't see how the opt-out system would allow them to do anything worse. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 when your dead what the hell difference does it matter? if you would rather feed the worms or a fire than help someone not so lucky in life, then it shows a selfishness par excellence KW You obviously haven't bothered to read post #78, Iv'e shown you mine, lets see yours. No apology necessary . It hasn't made up your mind for you. If you don't want to donate then say so. How can that be open to abuse? If you mean that they miught take them any way then so what? They could take them from someone who isn't an organ doner already if they were so minded so I don't see how the opt-out system would allow them to do anything worse. J. I refer you to post #76,read the whole thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Haven't had the chance to go through all the comments yet but I'd definitely want to be an organ donor. There's something wrong if you can save someone's life by giving them an organ and you chose not to,(you don't exactly need it). Face transplants are more controversial but after reading this it has changed my opinions http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2350575/Richard-Lee-Norris-Incredible-transformation-shotgun-victim-worlds-extensive-face-transplant.html gives someone a totally new life. Ps am I correct in thinking that if you get a heart transplant you have to get new lungs as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Haven't had the chance to go through all the comments yet but I'd definitely want to be an organ donor. There's something wrong if you can save someone's life by giving them an organ and you chose not to,(you don't exactly need it). Face transplants are more controversial but after reading this it has changed my opinions http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2350575/Richard-Lee-Norris-Incredible-transformation-shotgun-victim-worlds-extensive-face-transplant.html gives someone a totally new life. Ps am I correct in thinking that if you get a heart transplant you have to get new lungs as well? So why are you not one now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Well I am..I'm just not dead yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Well I am..I'm just not dead yet I mean do you carry a donor card to show your intentions to those that need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I mean do you carry a donor card to show your intentions to those that need to know. No. But when I've filled out forms previously at hosp. I've ticked all the stuff for organ donation. So I'm guessing they keep that on record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 No. But when I've filled out forms previously at hosp. I've ticked all the stuff for organ donation. So I'm guessing they keep that on record? This is one of the points i have been making, lots of people come on here and say they will when it becomes opt in opt out and then go on about how noble it is etc, but in reality few actually have a donor card right now. The hypocrites are the ones who spout off that you should opt in because it doesn't matter when you are dead,you won't need them,but don't carry a card now. No one has met my challenge and posted their donor card up yet,some of you must have one in your wallet,they send them out with your driving licence,you can pick one up in a hospital or doctors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 You obviously haven't bothered to read post #78, Iv'e shown you mine, lets see yours. No apology necessary . I refer you to post #76,read the whole thread. You suggest that an opt-out system in some way makes it easier for the NHS to kill you sooner to harvest your organs and that monsy may be involved. I fail to see how an opt-out system can be manipulated in this way to a greater extent to the system we already have. Can you explain your reasoning? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 You suggest that an opt-out system in some way makes it easier for the NHS to kill you sooner to harvest your organs and that monsy may be involved. I fail to see how an opt-out system can be manipulated in this way to a greater extent to the system we already have. Can you explain your reasoning? J. Have you read all the posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 You suggest that an opt-out system in some way makes it easier for the NHS to kill you sooner to harvest your organs and that monsy may be involved. I fail to see how an opt-out system can be manipulated in this way to a greater extent to the system we already have. Can you explain your reasoning? J. Is there any chance you might go out and shoot something, take a few pictures and do a write up instead of the trash you type on here most of the time? TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 This is one of the points i have been making, lots of people come on here and say they will when it becomes opt in opt out and then go on about how noble it is etc, but in reality few actually have a donor card right now. The hypocrites are the ones who spout off that you should opt in because it doesn't matter when you are dead,you won't need them,but don't carry a card now. No one has met my challenge and posted their donor card up yet,some of you must have one in your wallet,they send them out with your driving licence,you can pick one up in a hospital or doctors. I had a card many years ago but haven't seen it in a long time. I'm on the register though which is what matters. The card is just evidence that you are on the register. Currently you have to do something to be on the register. It's far easier if there is a presumption that everyone is and you have a register of those who don't want to donate. For a start it's easy and totally unambiguous to define who doesn't go on the transplant register. Lots of people don't go on the register not because they don't want to be but for reasons such as they don't want to think about their own death, have better things to do, etc, etc. I suspect that people actually want that decision taken away from them. If people have real objections to donating then they can opt out. I would fancy that the vast majority of people won't though and there will be fewer who want to opt-out who won't get round to doing it. J. Have you read all the posts? Yes and I still can't see how the system can be exploitd by bent doctors or inefficiant admin staff any worse than the current one. You, nor anyone else, has explained how it could be. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) Is there any chance you might go out and shoot something, take a few pictures and do a write up instead of the trash you type on here most of the time? TEH No one is forcing you to read it. In case you missed it; this forum is called 'Off Topic'. The Off Topic on a shooting forum would usually involve things not about shooting. J. Edited July 2, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) Is there any chance you might go out and shoot something, take a few pictures and do a write up instead of the trash you type on here most of the time? TEH ! he got warned last week ! Edited July 2, 2013 by Pole Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.