wannabe_keeper Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Progress so far of the new pen... ...... .............. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.philmypower. Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Looking good mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Cheers mate, getting excited now as its starting to look more like a shoot every day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Good work so far fella. What birds did you decide and how many? Also how big is your pen? Number of drinkers shelters feeders etc? Could all be useful info to people. Not long now mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Still undecided yet on the birds. I have a meeting with the farmer next week to mark out areas for ploughing for cover crop (if it ever dries up!) so will be discussing the ex layers vs poults debate! Pen is approx 25m wide (quite narrow) by 70m long. Hoping to either hold 250 ex layers or a similar number of poults. Feeders and drinkers still yet to go in but we have 2 tin shelters and the addition of probably 8/10 bell or nipple drinkers and a similar amount of bucket feeders. Just the double strand of electric fence to be added and pen is pretty much complete! Are these numbers fairly accurate or could I get away with more birds? It's the first year so want to start off small, bearing in mind we are literally surrounded on all sides by 3 large estates putting down in excess of 15,000 birds each!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colc08 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Great work Harry. Its looking fantastic mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Still undecided yet on the birds. I have a meeting with the farmer next week to mark out areas for ploughing for cover crop (if it ever dries up!) so will be discussing the ex layers vs poults debate! Pen is approx 25m wide (quite narrow) by 70m long. Hoping to either hold 250 ex layers or a similar number of poults. Feeders and drinkers still yet to go in but we have 2 tin shelters and the addition of probably 8/10 bell or nipple drinkers and a similar amount of bucket feeders. Just the double strand of electric fence to be added and pen is pretty much complete! Are these numbers fairly accurate or could I get away with more birds? It's the first year so want to start off small, bearing in mind we are literally surrounded on all sides by 3 large estates putting down in excess of 15,000 birds each!? Nice to know you'll be getting some help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pboro shot Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I love it when you start afreash atleast there arent to many brambles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis_Lempriere Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Looks great! Now wishing I had that amount of permission, oh well I'm still young! So can get to know plenty more farmers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty* Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 looking good mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Are you putting straining posts in corners and at entrances?We were advised to as it means everything is so much more sturdier and you can really get some pain on that wire when you pull it tight. Looking good by the way. What do you do for pop-holes?We could do with some better designs but are too tight to buy some! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I know, I'll be the first to admit that we will probably gain many of our neighbours birds but what can I do!? At least I'm making the effort and putting SOME down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretboy111 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Atleast your putting some down, can't stand people (aka my neighbours) feeding the boundaries and shooting my hard work! How many days are you planning on shooting? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 If u want to cut corners a wee touch and keep costs down instead of putting strainers at gates u can either nail a strongish rail between ur 2 gate posts at head/top of post hieght, or run the top line wire right throu steepling it home both sides or a seperate piece of mild steel wire doubled round the posts and fastened and put a stick in middle and turn it to take up slack. Basically if the 2 gate post heads can't pull apart makes life easier. I would also say no need to pull wires or esp net mega tight, infact the slacker the net is the better, doesn't look so good but a fox can and will climb tight net Wannabe, do u not use any line wires on ur pens? Also i see u use rabbit net the whole way up. Ideally i use rabbit net on bottom folded and well pegged down with a line wire around the 600-700mm (around 2ft ish) and then the larger net on top section with a line wire at the top and an overhang at top as well. Althou the last couple i built were with freeby net which was different size to normal so just made up as went along, but not up to my prefered standard, still does the job thou But to be honest it doesn't make a difference i know some keepers who's pens are immaculate and built like fort knox and still get foxes in every now and again and others who's pens look rubbish and half falling down but seem never to get foxes in (or atleast never admit it). I think it does loook good when u have a half decent pen thou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 You can see the pop holes in one of the pics. I managed to get hold of some large 1 inch mesh panels which we pen in with hazel sticks at about a 45 degree angle to the fence wire and then just build a full round funnel. The electric fence can pass straight through the mesh panel by cable tying a small section of hose pipe to the mesh to pass wire through to stop it shorting. I know I will get slated but don't use and never have used fox grids. Often find birds get caught up in them and end up running back out or flapping like mad especially with ex layers (being bigger). Shoot I've been involved in (not my own) has never used grids on 10+ pens and never had a fox in one of them with the above design as long as I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Also we didn't use any strainer or wire as the posts we in a good 2ft of solid ground and we were able to pull the wire nice and tight. As you can see in the pics it's fairly tight and straight and posts put up with the tension well. Of course they may bend/break over time but I expect the odd post to rot and need replacing yearly anyway. I used 6ft wire as this is how the keepers on the shoot I was brought up on did it and I guess you kinda just copy what you know. We folded over 5/6 inches and pegged it down and by the time you stretch it back up to get it nice and tight you gain the 5/6 inches lost at the bottom and have 6ft or just under of actual hight which in my opinion is plenty. I will also be doing a double strand of electric fence too. Anyone know what best heights to have the 2 at as have only ever really done 1. Guess its to prevent digging but also prevent a fox getting between the leci fence and chicken wire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Ferretboy - hoping to shoot 6 days. 1 - Farm owners day + 5 guns (in exchange for using the land rent free!) 2 - Sold day 6 guns 3 - Sold day 6 guns 4 - My day + 5 guns 5 - Sold day 6 guns 6 - Beaters/Walk round day I'd like to achieve 30 bird days. 6 guns a day, charging about £100 a gun on the sold days but this is all premature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretboy111 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Sounds ideal mate- best not to overshoot it. You'll get a better return keeping it fairly quiet with your neighbours big estates near by. How many acres is the shoot over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Do you think the bag numbers/pricing is accurate enough. Will it sell? Its only 250 acres with about another 60 acres of National Trust woodland which we have been granted permission to blank in only, so no guns to be taken on, no feeding etc... I don't want to over do it in the first year and be too optimistic. The land is lovely though with little shaws to make the drives and having 3 or 4 strips of maize/sorghum put in too. Unless i went for 8 days (fortnightly) from October, trying to do 40+ bird days, sell 6 days and charge £150/gun which is like £5,400. As long as i cover feed and bird costs by selling a bit i dont mind paying for the pen/feeders etc... Have only spent £300 on the shoot so far and have all the feeders and pen 95% built. Am blessed to have plenty of keepering friends to beg/borrow/steal from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Does the big shoot not have any problems with foxes/billy digging in or pheasants scratching/undermineing there way out over time, 5/6" isn't much. I usually have 1'6" min folded out on the ground and sometimes extend that depending on ground conditions. Ideally i would have around 8'6" of net (3'6" rabbit, 5' of the 2" net)so u have a good overhang top and bottom plus an over lap at join. Every keeper has there own ways thou Don't mean to pee on ur chip's But U might find that ur neighbouring keepers would not be overly bothered by u/farmer/mates or even a small syndicate having a shoot and walk round now and again even if u didn't release any; but i would imagine if they thought someone is making money and selling days at there expense they will try every trick in the book to stop there birds wandering to u A syndicate shoot i know has shoot 100+% for years due to it's neighbour, 2 years ago neighbour moved some pens/drives, still releasing a massive ammount of birds, last season they got around 10% this year they were up to around 20%. U can't always rely on other peoples birds to fil ur bag, if it's a succss this season but ur neighbours get wise and move pens throu close season (or go bust/stop shooting) and u have sold days for birds that may not be there. Good luck to u, but u might find attitudes change if they think u are trying to make money at it, sometimes u don't want to annoy the big shoots to much, they could probably offer the farmer more money + days shooting just to get u off the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretboy111 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Agree with scotslad re: neighbours. I would say 6 would be about right and if it's fully driven then £100 a gun will be fine for 30 birds. I have 3 neighbours who put feeders out and shoot my birds without releasing any- two of them only shoot 2/3 days a year tops with an average of 40 bag which I can tolerate but it's the other shoot who shoot 8-10 times a year and only feed my birds who **** me off. They average 20-30 a day. As long as you put 150 down and put some time Into killing things then I'm sure you will be tolerated. It's those people out there who start feeding start of September with feeders without any pens, birds, vermin control or understanding of keepering that can jog on. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Cant say they have every had any fox trouble digging in with the pen design i have used and mentioned above but of course i know this is only one way and all keepers do things different. Its just what you have confidence in and what you know to work i guess. With the other shoots, i guess it all comes down to intent. I have the benefit of knowing the neighbouring shoots and it has always been my intention to only get enough money back out of the shoot to what i put into it (or thereabouts) hence me only looking to produce 5-6 x 30 bird days which in relation to my 250+ putting down does not show direct attempt to profit from their birds. I know that down here a lot of the REAL big estates with large acreage's rarely dog in anyway and can't see to much sleep being lost to the few birds i may pinch on my small ground in the grand scheme of their operations. Edited March 25, 2013 by wannabe_keeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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