Tim_D Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Hi there, I'd appreciate tapping some of your collective knowledge... I currently shoot with a CZ452 and have no problems with rabbits and the odd unlucky pigeon that lands in the field. BUT... having a solid (ground) backstop to shoot into means I get to see many pigoens in trees that I can't touch. I have a .25 FAC Air Rifle on my certificate and the plan was that later on (ie now) I would get this Air Rifle to stalk a few pigeons in trees. I was under the impression that shooting well away from population, I would be safe to pop this thing off into the air at pigeons... but I think I am wrong. When talking with my local RFD he said no, I should still have a good backstop... Back to square one then... so I'm thinking maybe a .22 non FAC... but have no idea what sort of range I can shoot (pigeons) over, or if it is safe to shoot into the air with these either... I'm not interested in a shotty as my fun is stalking and getting a clean kill rather than mass murder if you know what I mean! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, I hope I can decide on the right tool for the job Tim / Bedfordshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poacher Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Hi there, I'd appreciate tapping some of your collective knowledge... I currently shoot with a CZ452 and have no problems with rabbits and the odd unlucky pigeon that lands in the field. BUT... having a solid (ground) backstop to shoot into means I get to see many pigoens in trees that I can't touch. I have a .25 FAC Air Rifle on my certificate and the plan was that later on (ie now) I would get this Air Rifle to stalk a few pigeons in trees. I was under the impression that shooting well away from population, I would be safe to pop this thing off into the air at pigeons... but I think I am wrong. When talking with my local RFD he said no, I should still have a good backstop... Back to square one then... so I'm thinking maybe a .22 non FAC... but have no idea what sort of range I can shoot (pigeons) over, or if it is safe to shoot into the air with these either... I'm not interested in a shotty as my fun is stalking and getting a clean kill rather than if you know what I mean! Tim / Bedfordshire use a Shotgun Roost shooting is probably your best bet don't shoot into the air with any rifle you never know who's around and where the bullet/pellet will end up.........Always have a backstop "mass murder " new to the sport or just ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_D Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 "mass murder " new to the sport or just ignorant Ignorant I find a little harsh, I mean when I go out to shoot, it is to stalk a pigeon or two for the pot, (my permission is really quite small) not an afternoon of shooting 50 or so pigeons with a shotty and decoys. Thanks for your advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 I agree ignorant was harsh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poacher Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Ok perhaps and I'm sorry if you've taken offence, but i don't think people should refer to our sport as murder...That is anti talk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon.w Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 If the thought of a 12 bore does not appeal, try a .410 single barrel as it has a much smaller charge of shot as you cannot blaze away and will have to pick your shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie_fn12 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 or a simple .22 break barrel sub 12ftlb'er m8.... if you want .22 then you wont go far wrong with a Weihrauch...simple choice the new HW95k thats out.... nice and light and great for the type of work your suggesting as long as there arent any houses/property near to where your shooting and you do it responsibly well within your boundaries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 to stalk a pigeon or two for the pot, (my permission is really quite small) not an afternoon of shooting 50 or so pigeons with a shotty and decoys. Thanks for your advice. Tony I think you will find you are outwith the terms of the "General Licence". Have you also sorted the boundary issue ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancs Lad Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 sub 12lb air gun..................that will do you just fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 I'd be using a .177 air rifle for certain. It is easier to be accurate with .177 than with a .22, and if you go for close range chest shots, a .22 just wont get you the clean kills that a .177 will. You'll get away with shooting them under the general licence in the day, but not lamping at night. I shoot loads of stuff with my .177 air rifle, and it is just as humane as a shotty, if not better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipper Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Tim I agree with njc, get yourself a .177 air rifle. I shoot pigeons crows maggies squirrels with my Air Arms S410k with no problems just make sure you are aware of your surroundings and who is about as shooting a pellet into the air is not the best thing to do. I would recommend a Air Arms S410k in .177 not over 12ft/lb. you wont go far wrong with one of these guns there light weight, deadly accurate, easy to use and very reliable. do a serch on this gun in the airgun section of this forum i dont think you will find a bad word against this gun. Hope this helps "shotty" "MASS MURDER" thats a bit harsh. A shot gun is the "right tool for the job" when it comes to pest controll / crop protection with pigeons. KIPPER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 if you go for close range chest shots, a .22 just wont get you the clean kills that a .177 will Care to elaborate on that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 and if you go for close range chest shots, a .22 just wont get you the clean kills that a .177 will You are talking out of your **** mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 What's what I was thinking, but I have not been on the how to win friends and influence people course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie_fn12 Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 glad someone said it LOL close range a .22 will do the most damage... .177 has flatter trjectory thats all...if your good with a .22 then thats the way to go, im not saying .177 is not any good as i use it myself but for closer range where i have to be certain i tend to use .22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conygree Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I've read before 177 for birds and 22 for furry things. Found out why at last after using a 22 HW90K for ages it works but my new 177 evolution is far better as all pellets pick up feathers as they hit the bird, so in effect its like being hit by a boxing glove, so the 177 is a smaller glove and traveling 200 fps faster than 22. The evolution is very light I fitted a 1.5 - 5 x 20 WTC, works great for high angle and standing shots but goes straight through squirrels, so go for head shots, whereas the HW90K 22 smashes their chest organs. Shot x6 squirrels x2 crows x5 pigeon with the evolution on Saturday and x16 squirrels in a new wood Tuesday, best shooting ever with the little Evolution. Didn't hit a thing Sunday - went for a walk around the estate with my wife, one squirrel came around an oak to say hello to the lady, she smilled and said," hello", then turned around to see me unzipping my gun. Something about, "its ba****ds like you that are vermin". Shooting into trees- the keeper on the estate uses a 17HMR to shoot branchers next to an airfield and crows with a 25-06, I like to let him know where I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Shooting into trees- the keeper on the estate uses a 17HMR to shoot branchers next to an airfield and crows with a 25-06, I like to let him know where I am. Send me his address and I`ll put him right on a few things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 "Like to let him know where i am" Struth, i wouldnt go anywhere near that place with someone shooting that in the air, loony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conygree Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I'm workiing on it internally,otherwise it will be me thats out, bit of a closed shop. hopefully he will be moving on at the end of the season. Its a constant fear for both me and my son of being 'touched', but as there are deer stalkers on site along with some well novice guns on the game, it sharpened up our reflexes and our operational movments are well planed with all staff. I had an incident in Wales once where a man in an old van drove towards me on a country lane, stopped alongside me and put a loaded 12g in my guts and grinned, after a stand off. I said,"I'm going to move now" to take control, sod grabbing the barrel, and he drove off. Reported it to the police, told I had phoned the wrong police station - the right one couldn't be bothered either. Maybe I should start a thread for anybodys experiences of 'friendly fire' incidents on a country walk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 if you go for close range chest shots, a .22 just wont get you the clean kills that a .177 will Care to elaborate on that one? Oops, sorry! I meant at longer range the penetration of the .177 would help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 wonder what happens to all those bullets you see the rag heads popping off into thin air from their AK47's??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PestController Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Clearly you're not proficient in using any calibre of air weapon under the conditions of which you are speaking, otherwise you would not be asking the questions. Regardless of whether a rifle is air or gas propelled, a knowledge of trajectory characteristics, range, windage and elevation is required, under varying conditions, along with the ability to shoot well consistently and zero a scope properly. It is NOT advisable to discharge any rifle, air or otherwise into the sky, unless A you have a backstop, which clearly you can't have! or B you categorically know that there is no risk to others within the full trajectory range of the discharged projectile. Given that you choose not to use the recommended method of humane dispatch, ie shotgun, you are more than likely in breach of the law, and outside the general licence guidelines for pigeon control, as laid down by the Government. The methods of pigeon pest control for the sake of crop protection, that you refer to as "mass murder", have been sanctioned by govt. and upheld by the BASC. You would do well to visit their website for more information and education. IMHO you would be better with standard 12ft/lb recoiless PCP, if you are firing into trees, but ONLY after checking 100% the PROBABILITY of you doing no damage or injuring anyone in the vicinity, AND having spent time on a range with an expert, there are many clubs who will welcome you to join. Only then can you be considered to be proficient, and to move onto "live" quarry, whereby a clean, humane cull is guaranteed. PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_D Posted December 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Hi Everyone, Thanks for the different views and opinions. It's interesting to see how people vary from "Should be fine to use a sub 12 ft/lb" to "Clearly you're not proficient". I cannot use a shotty due to the noise, whilst there is only one house (the land owner) that will hear it, there are horses in all of the fields, (I have been using subsonic ammunition and a silencer so far and can be sat next to the horses and they don't get startled). That is the one condition of shooting this ground that I don't spook the horses! (God bless em, never seen the beauty in them myself) If I could use a 4/10 I would (for the pigeons not the horses) Anyway, I've decided to look into a sub 12 ft/lbs .177 or maybe .22 and as far as shots into the air go, I'm going to be carefull. The permission is actually a valley and you can line up most shots with a field some distance behind you, however, I don't feel comfortable doing this with the rimmy, even though I can see the field in the distance, it's the dents in my steel backstop at 70 yards when zeroing on a target that spook me! I think it's a bit less risky with the air rifle. Right, before I stop rambling, I think I've upset a few of you with the the words "Mass Murder" - no offence intended! I love shooting too, I'm not saying a shotty is mass murder !! - What I mean, as I tried to say in an earlier post is my passsion is stalking a couple of rabbits / pigeons and taking them home for the pot. The cleaner the kill, the more content I feel.. (whilst keeping the land owner happy with a few less burrows that the horses can put their lovely feet into and a few less pigeons)... not taking 50 or so birds. Anyway, I appreciate all of your comments, harsh or otherwise. .. . Cheers. If any of you are local and want to come over one weekend for a shot or 3, drop me a line.. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 EDIT: [badly worded] I am still offended. I took over 50 birds a few times this year, and I used them all. The vast majority were clean kills which are easily achieved with a shotgun and some practice. Poorly chosen language aside this is a pigeon shooting site which has an airgun section as well, it is not a "well I only want a few birds and think 50 is too many for anyone to use" site. I breast them off and freeze what I don't use immediately and work my way through them. No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 I've quite happily used a shotgun next to cows, sheep and horses, in my experience it doesn't seem to bother any of them much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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