Frenchieboy Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I've just got the gear together started reloading my own ammunition. The first few rounds I did with my mate at his place as he is an experienced reloader and was willing to watch over me to make sure I got it all right. One of the first things we did was to zero my Lee Safety Powder Scales (Which I got second hand) and then check them against his (Which are a more expensive set - RCBS I think) What we found was quite surprising! With both mine and his scales correctly zeroed and checked by both of us we weighed out a load of powder on his scales and than transfered to to my scales. My scales read 1/2 a grain light! We repeated this three or four times with different weights of powder and at came out the same every time - 1/2 a grain light on my scales an all different weights. I can get round this by zeroing my scales and then adding a paper staple (Which weighs exactly .5 of a grain) twisted round the hanging arm of the dish after the scales have been zeroed which then gives the correct weight of all loads, but I am not 100% comfortable with that. With this in mind I am thinking that I might be better off with a set of digital scales. Can any of you suggest a set of digital scales that will not break the bank please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 depending on caliber that might not make much difference frenchie if they are consistent. I tried some electric scales and they were so much of a faff compared to my rcbs beam ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 As Al4x says ... is about consistency. And you'll still be working up your load for your gun on your scales. If it always weighs 0.5 light its consistent ... even digitals may vary +/- 0.1~2 and you'll never know. And it might be that it's your scales that are right ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rem708 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I too agree with everything already said. Consistency is the key. Only if you change scales or publish your data would this become an issue and then would 1/2 grain be that noticeable if you are still on the flat side of the pressure curve? The only time I get a bit touchy is when I'm on the knee of the pressure curve and trying to get every last bit I can out of the cartridge and then I'm working in 1/10 ths (only at paper targets) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Ok Guys, thanks for the words of wisdom! I appreciate that it is all about consistence and the scales that I have are consistent right through the different weights - Reading exactly 1/2 a grain lower that the actual load in them. With that in mind I will plod on with these scales but i would like to get a better set in the near future - Just in case I forget to compensate at some time and put the load a bit too much in and calibre, it takes a little off of my tiny little mind. At the moment I am working on my .222! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock16f Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 lyman dps 1200 are good i have had this for a year or so now and find it a great bit of kit but remember the price ? is it worth the money in the long run im loading lots of diferent cals so for me it was worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 How do you know his are not 1/2gr heavy? Without checking them both against a couple of digital and beam scales I wouldn't put my money ether way. As the others have said as long as yours are the same, no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 You really need to know a bit more about your scales - Yours may well be right and the RCBS ones wrong. First you need a good "check weight" preferably a set of check weights. There must be something adrift with the Lee scales that needs fixing. Although I'm not a lover of the Lee scales, they are usually very accurate, just fiddly to use. Adding a .5 grain weight to compensate for some error may lead to real trouble if you don't know what's causing the problem in the first place, say the problem is a little "fluff" stuck on the knife edge, three months down the line the fluff falls of, suddenly you are loading .5 grain overloads. I don't think you can beat a good beam scale - There's very little to go wrong and, unless abused, last a lifetime - A good basic beam scale like an RCBS 502/505 or the Redding No2 should be accurate to within 10th grain and indicate a single kernel of a powder like Varget. I have around 25 beam scales and two or three digital scales, I'm happy to weight bullets and cases with the digital scales but always use a beam scale for powder. A set of my RCBS scales in action: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) I have the Lee scales and they work perfectly for me, you can see the needle move when a grain of H4895 goes into the pan. They are not the best set in the world for getting set up but are accurate,consistant and for the price are great VFM. Personally I flirted with a cheapish digital set from ebay and ended up going back to the Lee for my charges. Edited July 2, 2013 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) What you guys have said makes perfect sense to me about the possibility of mine being accurate and it being my mate's scales that are a little out. I will obviously have to check mine against several other sets of scales to see which scales are right and which are wrong. Thanks for the advice guys! Edit: Just a quick update - I have contacted a good friend (And member of this forum) who has 3 different sets of scales (2 beam scales and 1 Digital set) and we are going to compare the weights of a few loads from my scales to what all 3 sets of his say they are. At least that way I will know if it is mine or my mates that are giving the wrong reading! Edited July 3, 2013 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I bought a set of hornady electronic scales for £40 recently and was sceptical of them working correctly or consistently. I use a metered powder supply and set that up for the 26.0 grains I use for the .223. Once the load is set on the powder hopper, I then used the new scales to check weigh and trickle if necessary. After that I checked on a beam scale. There was easily 0.1/0.2 grains variation on the powder thrower, up to the same on the electronic scales. I also found that with the powder trickler that it took the electronic scales longer to 'react' and consequently the powder was often overweight by 0.1/0.2 grains (rather a worry). The nature of the powder I use N133 means that it is often composed of longer and shorter 'strands' of powder and this causes the powder to bulk up so the volume in the case is no indicator of weight of charge. I think I may invest in some super scales too Frenchie but I would now always recommend a beam scale, even though they are a pain - they are always accurate if a good set. If anyone is using a micrometer powder thrower, it pays to check 2 in every 3 charges dispensed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Totally agree Kes - The trick with making accurate loads is to be consistent and control what we can as well as we can. We spend a lot of time and trouble prepping the case why just guess how much powder you're using when it's so easy to weigh each one. Sure, if you're shooting a lot of rounds and only interested in so-so accuracy or only shooting at the shorter ranges then a charge straight from a measure usually does the job. If you're trying to hit a grapefruit at 1000yds there's only one way to go. If you are a committed beam scale user, here's a trick you might fine useful:- http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/07/monitor-balance-beam-with-magnified-image-on-smartphone/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I completely agree with what you have said here 1066! Whilst I am not into hitting a grapefruit at 1000 yards I have started reloading in order to add a new dimension and degree of satisfaction to my shooting. As such I believe that if I am going to get into reloading you have to do it properly - Guessing or hoping that you are close to the load of powder you want in my opinion just isn't good enough, which is why I am concerned about "possible inaccuracies" in my scales! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 simply frenchie its the repeat ability that matters so if you work a load up on those scales and keep using them you won't have an issue. Once you get going if you aren't looking to be super anal about it you will find that you don't need to worry about half a grain and it makes ****** all difference at the ranges we shoot vermin at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Thanks for that al4x. I see what you are saying and am happy with the fact that consistence is the key. The loads that I am currently working on are well within the tollerances given in the manual even if my scales are weighing at .5 of a grain out. However just to satisfy my curiosity I will still check the scales out against another 3 different sets tomorrow. Thank you for your valuable input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 simply frenchie its the repeat ability that matters so if you work a load up on those scales and keep using them you won't have an issue. Once you get going if you aren't looking to be super anal about it you will find that you don't need to worry about half a grain and it makes ****** all difference at the ranges we shoot vermin at. I must be supa-dupa anal about my powder weights then - If it's not within a 10th grain I would dump it back in the pot and start again. I agree consistency is the key, but you really need a known "benchmark" as a starting point. By the time you have accepted a few thou difference in bullet seating depth, a few thou bullet run-out, slightly different length cases, variable neck tension, mixed batch of cases, half a grain either way with the powder weight etc. the chances of producing ammunition capable of good accuracy at longer ranges are pretty remote. True - probably good enough for short range vermin control or stalking where something like a 2" group at a hundred yards is considered good enough, but the longer the range and the smaller the target the more the attention to detail with the ammunition will take effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Well I went to see Ste12b today who checked my scales agains 3 different sets of his, and what an eye opener it was. As it turns out mine are just 1/10th of a grain out throughout the entire weighing range on them. This I am very happy with and it gives me a "benchmark" to work from and start developing the ammunition for my .222 using H4198 and Hornady 52g A-Max heads. As well as finding out that my scales are quite acceptable Steve spend some time with me and "educated" me on some of the finer points of reloading and developing the optimum round for my rifle, something that I am extremely grateful for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) I must be supa-dupa anal about my powder weights then - If it's not within a 10th grain I would dump it back in the pot and start again. I agree consistency is the key, but you really need a known "benchmark" as a starting point. By the time you have accepted a few thou difference in bullet seating depth, a few thou bullet run-out, slightly different length cases, variable neck tension, mixed batch of cases, half a grain either way with the powder weight etc. the chances of producing ammunition capable of good accuracy at longer ranges are pretty remote. True - probably good enough for short range vermin control or stalking where something like a 2" group at a hundred yards is considered good enough, but the longer the range and the smaller the target the more the attention to detail with the ammunition will take effect. it may depend on rifles but mine shoots sub inch at 200 yards with a small tolerance allowed, so if its within a couple of thou or fraction of a grain out i'm perfectly happy. I can bring more error to the equation while shooting than that. When measuring things like assembled rounds even moving the bullet in the calipers can introduce a couple of thou variation. Thats good frenchie now you can just get on with it and cease worrying Edited July 4, 2013 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooter Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 For real piece of mind I would buy a calibrated weight and check the scales with that before use. At least that way if they are out you will know by how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 For real piece of mind I would buy a calibrated weight and check the scales with that before use. At least that way if they are out you will know by how much. Not always a guarantee - the Hornady scales I mentioned above are set up using a 100gram calibration weight. This doesnt therefore convince me it can register 0.1 grains readily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxtond Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 have used a few different scales. my current combo is a rcbs charge master 1500 and a rcbs beam scale to double check my charges i have to say the charge master was expensive but it accurate and reliable. makes reloading a batch so much easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Thats good frenchie now you can just get on with it and cease worrying Too true al4x, I was allowing it to "overconcern" me a little too much, but then again it's better to be safe than sorry! Now that i know exactly where I stand with my scales I can get on to some serious reloading and test firing to develop a load that is best suited to my rifle. Thank you all for your input and help! Edited July 4, 2013 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 What I do is get a bullet of the weight specified, say 50grains and keep checking the scale now and again as I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 What I do is get a bullet of the weight specified, say 50grains and keep checking the scale now and again as I go. A very usefull tip Dougy. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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