dob Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 Just shot a 10 round mag at a 100yrd target, shots were low and right to start but got better as barrel warmed up , I have put a rough diagram below ,x depicts bull . ..x . . . .. . . All other rounds after this while barrel seemed warm were on the money,it may just be me but only other time I shot at targets was. To zero rifle in , any clues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theosmith Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 If hunting gun, you want a cold zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dob Posted August 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 Image did not come out in correct places were low and right then improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 If hunting gun, you want a cold zero +1 It can take a bit of time to get it zeroed, but well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dob Posted August 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 Shot rabbits the night before from vehicle and rifle was fine so a bit confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 If your talking .22 LR with a varmint barrel then it won't make any noticeable difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dob Posted August 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 It's a .17hmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) My Anschutz .22 lr smallbore target rifle is accurate in the extreame but it takes 3 shots for it to zero. It starts up to the left and then curves down to the bull. I bought it new in 1980 and it has been the same for all of those years. Obviously a field weapon needs to take the dot out first round so has to be zeroed to the first shot. My 223 reacts very differently with mod >> No mod. Thats all down to barrel harmonics. Edited August 28, 2013 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 In my opinion..... You zeroed the rifle/scope without waiting for the barrel to cool between shots - so, it's zeroed with a warm barrel. You did alright with the rabbits because it was "close enough" cold or there wasn't enough time between shots for the barrel to cool (the first few were "flukes"). Fairly simple really but, if it works out in the field, Why worry about it? Don't fix what ain't broken.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 from cold bore to finishing a ten round mag the barrel of a HMR wont heat up to such an extent as to make a heap of difference, I should look elsewhere for the answer than barrel temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 If it is a barrel temperature thing then I personally would want the zero to be spot on with the first shot for live quarry shooting rather than have to wait a few shots for the barrel to warm up before it was spot on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 from cold bore to finishing a ten round mag the barrel of a HMR wont heat up to such an extent as to make a heap of difference, I should look elsewhere for the answer than barrel temp.Yep. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Give it a GOOD clean, and start over again,then see what the results are like compared Then ask the same question. It may have an effect on both your group and your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharsus Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 I have had a couple of rimfires that are zeroed on the money but throw the first shot with mod, do not do it when the mod is off. Put the first round in the ground and away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I have had a couple of rimfires that are zeroed on the money but throw the first shot with mod, do not do it when the mod is off. Put the first round in the ground and away. I might like to hear how you recon that one happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharsus Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 No idea, never happens with the centrefire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I have had a couple of rimfires that are zeroed on the money but throw the first shot with mod, do not do it when the mod is off. Put the first round in the ground and away. If that was happening to me I would want to know why. I cannot see any logical explanation for this other than something is wrong. I would start with thorough cleaning. Mod on Mod off is probably just a distraction (why would you shoot with mod off?). Obviously the zero point will be significantly different with the mod on v mod off simply due to barrel harmonics. To fire your first shot into the ground is plain daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tharsus Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 It happened with 2 rimfires, mod off on the indoor range. No difference in zero mod on or off other than the first shot going about 1" left and slightly low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal 7888 Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 how often do you clean it? i mean proper clean with a rod, brush, jad and bore cleaner? that could be your problem! i have found all .17hmr's i have shot will be fine up to around 200 - 250 rounds and when they get there the accurracy drops right off, until its cleaned again. callum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 It happened with 2 rimfires, mod off on the indoor range. No difference in zero mod on or off other than the first shot going about 1" left and slightly low. I am very surprised that you did not get any difference in zero with mod on or mod off. That is not my experience. Something just does not feel right about the results you are getting, they are not logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theosmith Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 My friends rifle shoots left and low and will be spot on after 2shots but as soon as it cools it will be left and low. Of course its barrel harnomics but putting one in the ground is plain silly and will back down while hunting.......you dont notice this when hunting because you are not seeing results on the paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 My Anschutz .22 lr smallbore target rifle is accurate in the extreame but it takes 3 shots for it to zero. It starts up to the left and then curves down to the bull. I bought it new in 1980 and it has been the same for all of those years. Obviously a field weapon needs to take the dot out first round so has to be zeroed to the first shot. My 223 reacts very differently with mod >> No mod. Thats all down to barrel harmonics. That has also been my experience with my Anschutz 1813. And a clean barrel will require further conditioning shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 And a clean barrel will require further conditioning shots. There begins a whole new debate......... I have never understood why a good quality barrel that is clean and free from defects needs "conditioning shots". All my guns were purchased new (CZ and Anschutz) and after a period of "running in" during which microscopic machining marks in the bore were smoothed out by useage, they have been kept "properly clean". The first shot out of the barrel is accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 The whole reason why a gun might shoot better after cleaning and conditioning shots is - IT WASN'T CLEANED CORRECTLY! what happens during those "conditioning" shots is you re-soften the muck left behind previously and re-distribute it back more evenly through the bore than the "nearly clean" state left it. Only .22 LR and air rifles need running back in after cleaning. Any rifled firearm that shoots a jacketed bullet will create its best accuracy from a correctly cleaned bore that is also totally dry of oil and solvent deposits when first fired. The better the finish on the bore, the less issues you will get with half cleaning or shooting dirty. The reason for that is obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 I had heard about conditioning shots for .22 target rifles but was only fully convinced when I was present at Ruag's batch testing this summer at Bisley. The sales manager asked if I had cleaned my 1813's barrel, which I said I had done, whereupon he put about 5 rounds rapid through it of Ruag's cheapest ammo before starting on the expensive R50 stuff. I was fascinated to see on the computer screen that the first of the five was a flyer at 11 o'clock and that the remainder progressively tightened up on an imaginary 10 ring to give a passable group in the end. I now don't clean quite so often as I used to, to save ammunition on conditioning, and when I have cleaned I will put an extra few shots down the barrel before the sighters proper. Of course, a .22 target rifle is not the same thing as a centrefire hunting rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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