First FAC but advise needed

[Carson]

Firstly, I apologise as this has probably been asked many times before and whilst I have done a lot of research and read up on a lot of guides, opinions, etc I have not been able to get enough advise I believe I need to fill out the application.

 

I'm a current SGC holder with approx 1500 acres of permission split over 3 locations (all owned by the same farmer who conveniently is my father's best friend). I have been mulling over the idea of getting a rifle for quite some time as its something I have always been keen to take up since shooting with the Air cadets many many years ago!!

Just a few days ago I discussed the possibility of getting a rifle and using it on his land which he was absolutely fine with and has kind said get rid of as many rabbits as you can.

 

I'm currently in the process of filling out my FAC application and need some guidance as a first time FAC application. My questions are as follows:

 

1. How would I designate where I have obtained permission to shoot since there is very little space on the application and I have 3 areas of the farm (each a few miles apart) to put down? I've created a word document with a Map on it and pins marking the locations of the 3 areas, and then 3 more detailed maps showing the borders of each permission. Would this be ok if I attach it to the application and if so, what would I put down in the 'Where' box?
2. I'm keen to get a moderated .17 HMR due to its extremely flat tradjectory and long range capability (there are quite a lot of large open fields in the areas I have permission and also a few foxes too) but I also like the idea of a cheaper (ammo mostly), quieter and shorter range moderated .22LR but a colleague at work who has receltly applied for a FAC for deer and foxes says he doesn't think I will be able to justify putting down both a .22LR and .17 HMR for shooting rabbits. I'll almost certainly end up buying a .17 HMR first and then a year or two down the line, buy a .22LR.
   What would you suggest I do? Would I be able to get away with both? And is there a chane I would get declined a license if they weren't happy with this?
3. With the above calibres in mind (assuming I can get both on the license) what quantity of ammo would you suggest i get?

Many big thanks in advance for any help on this, I really appreciate it!

(This is much more complicated than a SGC!!!)

[njc110381]

On the form, just give the name and address of the land owner. You could also send in the details you have talked about on a seperate sheet, they would probably appreciate it.

 

Rifle wise you should be fine to get a .22 and a .17HMR. Firearms departments sometimes get a bit funny about people asking for a duplicate of something they have, but the HMR and LR are two totally different rounds and I feel both can be justified as being useful for a job the other cannot do. You cannot get low noise and longer range out of either cartridge so you will need both, Be sure to use the word need, not want.

 

Ammo wise how many rounds do you think you will use? I have buy 500 hold 600 on my bigger guns and buy 1000 hold 1100 on my .22lr. I think buy 500 hold 600 is a good start, but they may or may not agree.

 

They will not refuse a certificate for asking for both calibres or too much ammo. On your visit the FEO will talk to you about it if he is unhappy and I would suggest that if they want to drop your ammo a bit, as a new shooter you should just let them. I'd put a fairly strong point across about wanting both calibres if they question it, but I very much doubt that they will.

 

EDIT.... If they do reduce your ammo to a silly amount then just go with it. Buy your limit regularly, shoot them all and then buy more. After a couple of months just return your FAC and put in a little note saying that you have run out of ammo on several occasions and the low limit is restricting your shooting, especially over the weekend when you cannot buy more. They will almost certainly increase it. A FAC can be a bit of a progressive thing. Once you've had it for a while and had a bit of contact with your force you will probably find that they are a lot more open to your requests and suggestions than they were when you first started out.

Edited September 4, 2013 by njc110381

[pork chop]

hi buddy ,if your thinking of taking on foxes you should tink about a more suitable caliber than the 17 hmr .yes they will kill a fox but it can be marginal how about .22 rf and 22 hornet they would cover most things.on your form put the name of the farm and owner no need to put each loction, having maps ready is a good idea and yes inclued them with your forms if you wish.as for ammo when i had a 22 lr i used to have 500 to buy and 600 max cf ammo i have 300 to buy and 400 max and keeps me going ok.dont forget ot add on moderaters for each gun ,good luck it can get a bit long winded but worth the hassle

Edited September 4, 2013 by pork chop

[r1steele]

If it makes life easier you can tell them that one rifle will be for a dedicated night vision scope and it isn't practical or reasonable to be expected to change from night vision to a dayscope on that particular rifle therefor you need both rifles.

[Carson]

Thank you all for your input, I really do appreciate it!! I often forget what I great community this forum is

 

I think I will put down both caliber's on the application then, along with a separate line for the 2 moderators. Would you say a good justification for needing both caliber's would be:

• .17 HMR - Longer range daytime pest control rifle.
• .22 LR - Short range and almost silent night time rifle using sub sonic rounds so as not to disturb the neighbors when out lamping.

Am i right in thinking that if anything on the application is not clear enough for the FLO (Land, reasoning, etc), that they will ask for more information when they visit me?

 

Do I also need to provide signed proof of permission or will they ring the farmer and ask them to confirm that I have permission?

 

Finally, does anyone know how strict or otherwise Cambridgeshire FLO's based in Huntingdon are?

 

Many thanks again and apologies for all the questions, there is a lot to think about.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Carson

[lincs1963]

Don't forget to ask for a moderator for every calbre you apply for.

[Essex Keeper]

Do I also need to provide signed proof of permission??

 

 

Allways good to put a copy in

Edited September 4, 2013 by m2tyj

[r1steele]

Thank you all for your input, I really do appreciate it!! I often forget what I great community this forum is

 

I think I will put down both caliber's on the application then, along with a separate line for the 2 moderators. Would you say a good justification for needing both caliber's would be:

• .17 HMR - Longer range daytime pest control rifle.
• .22 LR - Short range and almost silent night time rifle using sub sonic rounds so as not to disturb the neighbors when out lamping.

Am i right in thinking that if anything on the application is not clear enough for the FLO (Land, reasoning, etc), that they will ask for more information when they visit me?

 

Do I also need to provide signed proof of permission or will they ring the farmer and ask them to confirm that I have permission?

 

Finally, does anyone know how strict or otherwise Cambridgeshire FLO's based in Huntingdon are?

 

Many thanks again and apologies for all the questions, there is a lot to think about.

The FEO will go through anything that isn't clear enough on his visit and have a general chat about yourself and your security etc. I would get a written letter from you permission owner along the lines of 'I give permission for (name and address) to use .22lr rimfire and .17hmr rimfire for the purpose of vermin control on my land at (addresses of farms)'

Get him to sign the letter and put his phone number at the bottom. Keep this letter but send a photocopy in with your application. Don't forget, if your FEO is awkward about both rifles (he can't really say no but they think they know the law), you .22 will be for nv as this is always easier. You don't have to put nv on it when you get it though. Good luck, Rob

[Carson]

Thank you, I shall speak to him and look at getting a signed letter of permission. Might be tricky right this minute as the old Freelander is off the road due to engine problems at the moment but should be able to get one prior to his visit if you think that will sufice?

 

As far as expanding ammunition goes, would I just put something like this?

.17 HMR Expanding - 600 keep - 500 buy

.22 LR Expanding - 600 keep - 500 buy

[Ben W.]

I have recently gained my FAC and put both 17 hmr and 22lr on the ticket. The FLO asked me why during the visit so I told him the truth, that the rabbits have been over shot and so getting within .22 range can be tricky especially as the land has no cover and is very flat. So the .17hmr would be ideal for range work. He agreed and both were granted.

 

So far as ammo is concerned I put 750 to hold and 500 to buy for each which was granted without question.

[Muddy Funker]

What you're asking for is exactly what I did for my first application and I'd hazard a guess the same as many others too.

 

It's a very sensible start and you're ammo request is exactly the same as mine was too, just make sure if your county allows it to get the 17HMR conditioned for fox as well as vermin.

[Carson]

I have recently gained my FAC and put both 17 hmr and 22lr on the ticket. The FLO asked me why during the visit so I told him the truth, that the rabbits have been over shot and so getting within .22 range can be tricky especially as the land has no cover and is very flat. So the .17hmr would be ideal for range work. He agreed and both were granted.

 

So far as ammo is concerned I put 750 to hold and 500 to buy for each which was granted without question.

 

Thats a very good point and something I hadn't thought about actually, better still I'd say thats applicable to the land I have permission on also.

 

Think i'll fill out the remainder of the paperwork this evening including the photo and get it all sent off then.

 

Thank you all for your help, fingers crossed I get everything and it's a nice smooth process.

[moor man]

Good luck with the application Carson, just a thought though......if you have muntjac or C.W.D. on the permission how about a .22 fullbore calibre (.222/.223/.22-250)? you will then have a fox rifle capable of legally taking our smaller deer too? Ask for conditions you need ie fox, deer, zeroing, target shooting?

You can apply for variations after being granted your F.A.C.but it costs. In our area if you are granted a slot for a certain calibre rifle and dont purchase it you can put in for free variation to get whatever calibre you need (within reason)

[r1steele]

Good luck with the application Carson, just a thought though......if you have muntjac or C.W.D. on the permission how about a .22 fullbore calibre (.222/.223/.22-250)? you will then have a fox rifle capable of legally taking our smaller deer too? Ask for conditions you need ie fox, deer, zeroing, target shooting?

You can apply for variations after being granted your F.A.C.but it costs. In our area if you are granted a slot for a certain calibre rifle and dont purchase it you can put in for free variation to get whatever calibre you need (within reason)

A one for one variation is free in all areas

What you're asking for is exactly what I did for my first application and I'd hazard a guess the same as many others too.

 

It's a very sensible start and you're ammo request is exactly the same as mine was too, just make sure if your county allows it to get the 17HMR conditioned for fox as well as vermin.

Or if you force allows it, AOLQ.

[njc110381]

One suggestion I would make is that you do not ask your farmer to give you written permission for .22lr and .17HMR. This will limit your permission to the use of these and if in the future your wish to go for something bigger for the foxes (which you most likely will) you will have to get a new letter signed off.

 

Ask your farmer to sign your letter stating that you have permission to shoot pests and game with any suitable calibre of firearm. That will leave you free to make sensible adjustments to the calibres you have in the future without bothering him again, right up to deer or boar if you have them and he wants them shot.

 

I've never listed the calibres I am allowed to use in a permission letter and I have never been questioned about it by the police. The farmer may well ask what you mean by what is written and the simple answer to that is be honest - just say what I just said and he'll most likely agree with your forward thinking.

[r1steele]

One suggestion I would make is that you do not ask your farmer to give you written permission for .22lr and .17HMR. This will limit your permission to the use of these and if in the future your wish to go for something bigger for the foxes (which you most likely will) you will have to get a new letter signed off.

 

Ask your farmer to sign your letter stating that you have permission to shoot pests and game with any suitable calibre of firearm. That will leave you free to make sensible adjustments to the calibres you have in the future without bothering him again, right up to deer or boar if you have them and he wants them shot.

 

I've never listed the calibres I am allowed to use in a permission letter and I have never been questioned about it by the police. The farmer may well ask what you mean by what is written and the simple answer to that is be honest - just say what I just said and he'll most likely agree with your forward thinking.

I've never had my permissions to state calibre, but when I moved to where I live now they insisted (tried anyway) I had named calibres for my main permission/reason. After many calls to my FEO I eventually got a hold of the firearm licencing manager and told her that I have permission to use firearms on said land and as an open certificate holder it was down to my discretion as to what calibre I could use and if they wanted to dig their heels in I was quite prepared to go down the legal route. Problem solved. I should of said the same as you have written rather than stating calibres so apologies for my mistake.

[Carson]

Put the application in the post today, and given the references their forms, etc so they should both be in the post shortly also....fingers crossed i've not forgotten anything and everything works nicely.

Thanks for all of your help with the application, hope i get everything I've asked for

 

Now need to buy a safe for the ammo, does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking of getting one of these:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/security-safe-16-3ltr/70942?source=aw&awc=1228_1378164649_10ffdb824821175d1c142bfacd612edc&cm_mmc=AffiliateWindow-_-DeepLink-_-Na-_-Na#aid#85386

 

Im keeping an eye out for a decent second hand break down brattonsound shotgun cabinet near me, then I can just put shelves in it for all of the ammo, bolts, etc... Shouldn't ever run out of space with one of those!!

Edited September 6, 2013 by Carson

[kent]

hi buddy ,if your thinking of taking on foxes you should tink about a more suitable caliber than the 17 hmr .yes they will kill a fox but it can be marginal how about .22 rf and 22 hornet they would cover most things.on your form put the name of the farm and owner no need to put each loction, having maps ready is a good idea and yes inclued them with your forms if you wish.as for ammo when i had a 22 lr i used to have 500 to buy and 600 max cf ammo i have 300 to buy and 400 max and keeps me going ok.dont forget ot add on moderaters for each gun ,good luck it can get a bit long winded but worth the hassle

 

A far better choice especially as regards fox and a lot better longer range rabbit gun (more room between when to use the .22 RF and when the .22 hornet). Dare I add easier to justify?