If we could bow hunt who would own a bow

[sirgoldalot]

I dont like popcorn but this might be a good time to try it?

he he he I have eaten two packets whilst watching this thread... Its entertaining watching the caning that some not in the know who think they know know nothing...pass the pepsi ...

[Ukdeer]

so back to my main topic

 

Who amongst us would own a bow if bow hunting was legal in the uk?

 

 

 

oh and my nick name sirgoldalot ever thought where that came from?

 

As you can tell im all for bowhunting.

Been shooting rifles for 30 yrs in all calibers and still cull deer with rifles.When i go abroad only the bow goes with me 1 trip after Elk in the Rocky Mountains, 2 trips to Africa and the third trip to Africa coming up in May next year.Then back after Elk in 2015 when i have enough preference points to draw a tag for unit 40 in Colorado.

[sirgoldalot]

 

As you can tell im all for bowhunting.

Been shooting rifles for 30 yrs in all calibers and still cull deer with rifles.When i go abroad only the bow goes with me 1 trip after Elk in the Rocky Mountains, 2 trips to Africa and the third trip to Africa coming up in May next year.Then back after Elk in 2015 when i have enough preference points to draw a tag for unit 40 in Colorado.

got any room in your luggage ?

 

do you know a certain tony and a nigel?

Edited November 4, 2013 by sirgoldalot

[kent]

If we could bow hunt who would now own a bow?

 

I have competed in field archery on and off for several years...i still have a bow and a crossbow...field archery is like hunting, involves unmarked distances at 2 d or foam 3 d animal targets.. deer boar wolf etc i am reasonably good at it normally in the top 20 at nationals when i am competing its as real as bow hunting can be in this country, and the technology of the modern compound bow is remarkably accurate in the right hands.

 

So if we could bow hunt how many of you guys would own a bow?

Me I should love to hunt with a bow, must be a blast and a better leveller than carrying a top notch hunting rifle capable of murdering deer that are so far away you could likely take a phone call without alerting them to you presence.

[sirgoldalot]

Me I should love to hunt with a bow, must be a blast and a better leveller than carrying a top notch hunting rifle capable of murdering deer that are so far away you could likely take a phone call without alerting them to you presence.

walk a little look a lot silently and downwind...

[Kes]

Could you give me the link to your above comment concerning the heart stopping immediatley and its brain stopping in milliseconds.

 

And if your comment is true why can an animal run after a perfect heart shot ,keeping its balance and reacting to obsticles in its way with no brain activity ?

 

looking forward to the link and your answer to the question.

As you will note, I mentioned only foxes as that is the total of my experience I have never had a rifle shot one run - I dont shoot deer yet but will. I have seen very many roe, munjac CWD etc drop instantly with rifle shots - they are on u tube, so you can find them. Not all bullet placements are perfect but my point is that even a slightly imperfect placement is not going to injure but kill very quickly. I believe the same to not be true of bowhunting. Based on simply the imparted energy its a point I dont really have to argue - 400 grain arrows at 300 ft/sec or not.

I stress AGAIN this is MY opinion - keep yours by all means.

[Kes]

Fister, you have your experience and I have mine, whether I "get the point" - your point -or not.

We must all do what we must - I'm just saying for me bowhunting is horrifying.

 

Vipa, You may be right it may take seconds, but every fox I have shot has been absolutely dead when I collected it after having dropped like a sack of potatoes - I have NEVER had a runner, not EVER. Please continue to quote articles etc I am simply advising of my own personal experience. I don't like bowhunting - I think its barbaric - you dont. Lets just leave it at that and get on with our respective lives. I have often agreed with your view. This time I don't.

 

What I see described as bowhunting sport on U tube comes close to revolting me - its just my view and my feeling, wound channels, hydrostatic shock or not, my experience dictates foxes I shoot with a rifle are dead as instantly as I can judge. I doubt I could say the same had I been using a bow and that thought is enough for me.

[ordnance]

 

he he he I have eaten two packets whilst watching this thread... Its entertaining watching the caning that some not in the know who think they know know nothing...pass the pepsi ...

Why don't you enlighten us with some of your wisdom and expertise on the subject. If you are able to see that some others don't know what they are talking about you must have some expertise on the subject.

 

I am surprised that so many on this forum would be happy to hunt using a bow. Most people that I know that go hunting a quick and as humane kill as possible is the most important thing. That is the job for a rifle not a bow. A question people that want to hunt with a bow why. ?

 

Even if a arrow was as effective as a HV rifle bullet there are other factors to take into account like the one below.

 

 

More often than not, poorly hit deer are lost. Animals commonly “jump the string” upon

hearing the release of an arrow – they reflexively move some distance before the arrow

reaches them. Animals can completely evade an arrow at a distance of 15 to 20 yards,

which means they can also partially evade an arrow, leading to a wounding shot.

Edited November 4, 2013 by ordnance

[Vipa]

You dont get the point, it isnt about imparted energy, it is the fatality of the wound it creates.

 

Slitting an artery is far less energy imparted to commit suicide than the impact from falling 20 storeys from a roof. Just as dead, just as fatal but far less imparted energy.

 

And no, im not heing a sicko, just trying to paint a visual picture (with episode 39 of DEXTER fresh in my tv viewing mind)

probably a hell of a lot less painfull and stressfull than falling from said building too! just drift off to sleep while the blood flows out!

[Vipa]

Fister, you have your experience and I have mine, whether I "get the point" - your point -or not.

We must all do what we must - I'm just saying for me bowhunting is horrifying.

 

Vipa, You may be right it may take seconds, but every fox I have shot has been absolutely dead when I collected it after having dropped like a sack of potatoes - I have NEVER had a runner, not EVER. Please continue to quote articles etc I am simply advising of my own personal experience. I don't like bowhunting - I think its barbaric - you dont. Lets just leave it at that and get on with our respective lives. I have often agreed with your view. This time I don't.

 

What I see described as bowhunting sport on U tube comes close to revolting me - its just my view and my feeling, wound channels, hydrostatic shock or not, my experience dictates foxes I shoot with a rifle are dead as instantly as I can judge. I doubt I could say the same had I been using a bow and that thought is enough for me.

 

Just trying to be a little educational Kes... far too many ill informed views that bear no resemblance to real world facts.. how long, on average, do you think it takes you from dropping a fox to actually arriving at the dead animal.. quite a long time... during which time it could quite probably been bleeding out, in agony and unable to move... you just don't know... the point is... slice yourself with a razor blade and whack yourself with a hammer... which one hurts and which one doesn't?

[ordnance]

 

Then again, i can quite confidently rely on my ability witha bow or rifle, im not anfallible but a bad shot with either is a bad shot, a good shot with either likewise but using the correct kit and knowing your ability is key

 

How do you would you allow for the animal moving when using a bow as bellow. Something that is not an issue with a HV bullet when its traveling above the speed of sound.

 

 

 

More often than not, poorly hit deer are lost. Animals commonly “jump the string” upon

hearing the release of an arrow – they reflexively move some distance before the arrow

reaches them. Animals can completely evade an arrow at a distance of 15 to 20 yards,

which means they can also partially evade an arrow, leading to a wounding shot.

 

[Kes]

Then again, i can quite confidently rely on my ability witha bow or rifle, im not anfallible but a bad shot with either is a bad shot, a good shot with either likewise but using the correct kit and knowing your ability is key. I take care to consider both. Like air guns, the easy accessibility of bows can draw the wrong people. There are plenty of examples on THIS FORUM of improperly used kit and although anyone can mess up a shot, it takes the morally inadequate to glorify the pictoral display of it. They dont realise how stupid they look showing the results of poor shots when they should take it on the chin an learn from it with maturity, its laughable to critisize the use of a bow when many will laugh and gloat at the prospect of a gut shot fox, killed at any cost.

Re your last sentence, I dont and never will. Any animal deserves the best of a hunters skills and none of his prejudice.

[DaveK]

I dont like popcorn but this might be a good time to try it?

 

Don't forget the crate of stella to go with it. Popcorn eating is mighty thirsty work

[Ukdeer]

 

How do you would you allow for the animal moving when using a bow as bellow. Something that is not an issue with a HV bullet when its traveling above the speed of sound.

 

 

 

 

Your quite right an animal can jump the string , as a matter of fact some animals can react to the sound of a bow at 9 yds.But when bowhunting you are observing animals at very close range and weighing up if they are relaxed up a litte jumpy. This is something else about bowhunting when you have learned to stalk as close as 25yds on deer you learn alot about them than looking through a scope at 200yds.So yes im afraid what you are saying could happen but i only take a shot with a bow when i feel the quarry is most relaxed to cut down the chance of this happening.

But looking at it from another angle lots of rifle and shotgun shooters prefer to shoot driven game .So i presume you would agree that they are also taking a risk of wounding game.

 

Know i have answered that could you please answer the question i asked you earlier.

 

Have you ever used a modern compound hunting bow,tuned and set up for you.?

[njc110381]

The best way I can claim to understand a bow wound is by relating it to the time when I cut a good sized chunk off of the end of my middle finger with a freshly sharpened hedgecutter. I can honestly say that when it happened, I knew something wasn't right but I certainly didn't feel much pain. If I was given the choice of going through that again but somehow without the long term nerve issues and wound tending, or smacking my thumb with a hammer (which I must add I do fairly regularly!) I would take the cut every time. A sharp cut does not hurt and a broadhead wound I would say would be very similar.

 

It's easy to get all emotional about the subject, saying it's cruel etc, but I don't believe it is. Likewise Kes, one day your opinion of the rifle shot on a fox will change. You just need to shoot more foxes. That's all meant in the kindest of manners, but what I'm saying I guess is that I've damn near ripped a fox in half with light bullets from quite powerful rifles and they have run quite some distance. Seemingly with a good enough level of judgement to find gaps in stock fences etc. They certainly do not drop dead on the spot every time. The same can be said of deer.

 

Whether it's a rifle shot that causes massive bleeding or a broadhead wound, either one will have the animal down and unconscious in a similar time frame. The shock factor has little to do with it and for as long as it takes for the blood pressure to drop to the point of passing out both a rifle and bow shot animal will be fully aware of what's going on.

[ordnance]

 

Have you ever used a modern compound hunting bow,tuned and set up for you.?

I have used a compound bow but not tuned for me. As i keep saying for me it comes down to the most effective and humane way to kill a animal. If i accepted that a bow will kill as effectively as a bullet ( i don't ) then the other most important thing is accuracy to consistently hit the target in the area they want. If someone is trying to tell me that they can do that as accurately and consistently with a bow unsupported as a rifle unsupported or on a bipod unless their name is Robin Hood they cain't. If they are willing to except that a rifle is inherently more accurate and easier to learn to shoot accurately than a bow and arrow then they are excepting that they are more likely to wound with a bow than a rifle. If they are happy to continue hunting with a bow fair enough.

Edited November 4, 2013 by ordnance

[Vipa]

I have used a compound bow but not tuned for me. As i keep saying for me it comes down to the most effective and humane way to kill a animal. If i accepted that a bow will kill as effectively as a bullet ( i don't ) then the other most important thing is accuracy to consistently hit the target in the area they want. If someone is trying to tell me that they can do that as accurately and consistently with a bow unsupported as a rifle unsupported or on a bipod unless their name is Robin Hood they cain't. If they are willing to except that a rifle is inherently more accurate and easier to learn to shoot accurately than a bow and arrow then they are excepting that they are more likely to wound with a bow than a rifle. If they are happy to continue hunting with a bow fair enough.

 

 

You forget... a bow is a self bracing weapon and is therefore inherently more stable unsupported than a rifle... a rifle is a weight out in front of you which puts the shooter off balance, he is also required to use exhorbitant amounts of muscle energy to hold the rifle up..

 

When a bow is drawn it creates it's own brace, accross the centre of gravity of the shooter and is therefore much easier to steady and control.. at 25 yards I can consistently put a brace of 5 arrows inside a 1" (or less if i'm on a good day!) circle.. that's well within the kill zone by a serious margin of any animal that would be taken by that method.. granted that is in a target setting so the adrenaline isn't pumping etc... but please don't assume or try to imply that bows arent accurate... I can do that at 25 yds every day of the week.. seasoned bow hunters can match that performance at 40 or 50 yards.. beyond there is irrelevant as not many would attempt to take a beast at that sort of range

[JohnFreeman1310]

I wouldn't as it's a lot Easter to wound and not get a clean kill you have to track the animal in my eyes not a nice end.

[12boreblue]

I beleive that there is still a law in place in this country, that demands that everyman turn up for archery practice, either weekly or monthly,(I think it is a Thurday!) if only I knew where?

[oscarsdad]

I think an important point to note, especially those who have not been into archery, is the answer to this question depends very much on the type of bow...

 

A high poundage compound bow - yes I would hunt with it because I could comfortably hold it at full draw for a relatively long period of time to be sure of the shot.

 

Recurve / American flat bow / Mongolian or long bow - no way would I be comfortable hunting with one. For it to be powerful enough to hunt I wouldn't be able to hold it at full draw long enough.

 

My target recurve meant I had just under 50lb on my fingers (which is a lot for recurve) - that was fine for target shooting where there is no need to hold at full draw, but under no circumstances would I want to hung with it. I have sold it and am looking for a .243 instead.

[sirgoldalot]

Why don't you enlighten us with some of your wisdom and expertise on the subject. If you are able to see that some others don't know what they are talking about you must have some expertise on the subject.

 

I am surprised that so many on this forum would be happy to hunt using a bow. Most people that I know that go hunting a quick and as humane kill as possible is the most important thing. That is the job for a rifle not a bow. A question people that want to hunt with a bow why. ?

 

Even if a arrow was as effective as a HV rifle bullet there are other factors to take into account like the one below.

 

 

I think my question has been answered.... MOST WOULD......

[sirgoldalot]

I beleive that there is still a law in place in this country, that demands that everyman turn up for archery practice, either weekly or monthly,(I think it is a Thurday!) if only I knew where?

not in N Ireland thats for sure...

[Scully]

I beleive that there is still a law in place in this country, that demands that everyman turn up for archery practice, either weekly or monthly,(I think it is a Thurday!) if only I knew where?

There is a field in part of our village where the cricket pitch is now situated, which is called the Butts because of this very reason.

[Vipa]

 

I beleive that there is still a law in place in this country, that demands that everyman turn up for archery practice, either weekly or monthly,(I think it is a Thurday!) if only I knew where?

It is on a sunday after church for an hour..

[casts_by_fly]

 

How do you would you allow for the animal moving when using a bow as bellow. Something that is not an issue with a HV bullet when its traveling above the speed of sound.

 

 

 

 

In practical terms, you aim a little low. Typically that means a heart shot if the animal doesn't jump and a lung shot if it does. However, as noted bows are getting quieter and quieter. And, the only deer that jumps a string is an alert one that is ready to jump anyway. In all of my years bowhunting, I can think of only one deer that jumped my string. It was a big buck trailing a doe which saw me draw. He stopped broadside at 30-35 yards looking at me and was on high alert. The bow I was shooting was slow (~210 fps) and fairly loud. The arrow sailed just over his back, perfectly inline with where it should have been, only 8-12" high. Had I been shooting a faster bow or been more concealed (I was on the ground in a makeshift brush pile) it wouldn't have been an issue.

 

Also, jumping the string is only a concern for animals in a certain range. Under 15 yards or so and there isn't enough time for him to drop at the reaction to the shot. Over a certain distance (depending on the bow, but 30 yards is a good starting point) the noise is dissapated and doesn't spook the deer.

 

 

I think an important point to note, especially those who have not been into archery, is the answer to this question depends very much on the type of bow...

 

A high poundage compound bow - yes I would hunt with it because I could comfortably hold it at full draw for a relatively long period of time to be sure of the shot.

 

Recurve / American flat bow / Mongolian or long bow - no way would I be comfortable hunting with one. For it to be powerful enough to hunt I wouldn't be able to hold it at full draw long enough.

 

My target recurve meant I had just under 50lb on my fingers (which is a lot for recurve) - that was fine for target shooting where there is no need to hold at full draw, but under no circumstances would I want to hung with it. I have sold it and am looking for a .243 instead.

 

Not really. Plenty of guys in the US shoot 'traditional' archery. You shoot a non compound differently when you're hunting. You don't draw and hold. You draw back and release almost the instant you hit your draw point. Even with a compound you don't want to hold it anymore than you need to. You want to draw at the last possible second as even holding 20% of 70lb is still quite a bit for more than 30 seconds and you front arm will get shaky, especially when your heart is racing and there is a big buck under your tree.

 

Also, a draw weight of 55lb in a recurve/longbow is more than enough for pass throughs. This refers back to the arrow weight and design discussion previously. With a heavy arrow and a cut to tip broadhead (i.e. a razor blade to the tip, not a chunky bone crushing tip) I would have no problems bow hunting with a traditional bow, if I had the time to practice. That is the real limiting factor for hunting with a recurve- accuracy. Since they are going much slower, range estimation is much more important. Also, with no sights you have to practice quite a lot more to be as consistent at different yardages. As fister said, there are guys who can hit a 10p coin from 10-50 yards shot after shot with a compound (look up 3D archery and what it takes to win). I'm not that good, but I've killed deer out to 45 yards and with a summer's worth of practice I'd feel confident in doing it again. I used to shoot in my basement before we moved here as I had a full 10 yards and unfinished walls. I was able to work on my form for as long as I wanted, and I used to be able to shoot eyes closed and keep a 2" group. That was with a couple years of 5+ hours a week. To shoot a traditional setup, I'd have to do the same again, plus I'd probably never shoot over 30 yards in the woods.

 

thanksr

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