If we could bow hunt who would own a bow

[Scully]

I have to ask; why would someone who is a keen bowman/shooter move to England?

[casts_by_fly]

I have to ask; why would someone who is a keen bowman/shooter move to England?

 

 

Life is about more than just shooting and hunting

 

 

this. There is enough shooting and fishing to keep me happy, and is of the type that I'd not get the chance to do back home (greyling on the river Test, driven pheasant shooting, roost shooting pigeons, etc). Since moving here though, I've been able to travel the world (that's not just a figure of speech) and expand my career. I've been able to do things and go places that I'd never have had the opportunity to do/go otherwise. I've met people of different cultures and philosophies which you'd not meet in the US and while it is possible to do many of the same things based on the US, it is no where near as easy or accessible. For instance, we're taking a weekend break to Brugges in 2 weeks because we can. For a couple hundred bucks we can spend a long weekend in one of the greatest beer cities in the world. Sure there are a lot of shooting/fishing things I'm missing, but they will be there when I get back.

 

rick

[Scully]

Life is about more than just shooting and hunting

Is it?

[oscarsdad]

Is it?

Yes, there's fishing as well

[kent]

As you will note, I mentioned only foxes as that is the total of my experience I have never had a rifle shot one run - I dont shoot deer yet but will. I have seen very many roe, munjac CWD etc drop instantly with rifle shots - they are on u tube, so you can find them. Not all bullet placements are perfect but my point is that even a slightly imperfect placement is not going to injure but kill very quickly. I believe the same to not be true of bowhunting. Based on simply the imparted energy its a point I dont really have to argue - 400 grain arrows at 300 ft/sec or not.

I stress AGAIN this is MY opinion - keep yours by all means.

Sorry but you have never heart shot a deer and you are arguing how they die- ugh? To be honest I feel you likely haven't done that many foxes either because even with the more powerful end of foxing rifles they will still run when heart lung shot at times. I shot a fox not long ago as a perfect heart shot at around 35 yds it ran 20 yds the way it was facing did a u turn came back to were it was previously and you could see the legs going all directions dead on its feet running on adrenalin. Dead as a doornail when it hit the deck within 3 seconds of being hit I estimate - but it still ran as have many others, you have to remember many of us have been at this a while. Anyone who claims he never gets this must put such shots down as missed - but they aint, its very hard to completely miss such a target within reasonable range.

The following isn't really an opinion its fact, the heart controls blood pumping the blood is oxygenated by the lungs the connection is via arteries brain death occurs when the brain fails to get sufficient oxygen- destruction of the heart does not kill its the removal of the pump. No wild creatures can survive severe lung damage created by a broad-head passing through the centre of both the lungs or heart / arteries. I have seen a photo of a deer from autopsy that had previously recovered from damage to an outer lobe at the back of the lungs from a broad-head. That said I have personally seen and recovered three legged deer, deer minus their lower jaw etc from failed head shots, numerous small calibre and shotgun wounds.

Could deer management (which is a total mess in the UK at present) be improved by Bow hunting? Actually I think it could especially as regards to public and more populated urban land. If you think it was banned on humane grounds then I must disagree it was to do with poaching and protecting an asset, look were it has now landed us- deer in cities and town thousand of RTAs involving deer and wait for it an explosion in Lyme disease

[Kes]

Sorry but you have never heart shot a deer and you are arguing how they die- ugh? To be honest I feel you likely haven't done that many foxes either because even with the more powerful end of foxing rifles they will still run when heart lung shot at times. I shot a fox not long ago as a perfect heart shot at around 35 yds it ran 20 yds the way it was facing did a u turn came back to were it was previously and you could see the legs going all directions dead on its feet running on adrenalin. Dead as a doornail when it hit the deck within 3 seconds of being hit I estimate - but it still ran as have many others, you have to remember many of us have been at this a while. Anyone who claims he never gets this must put such shots down as missed - but they aint, its very hard to completely miss such a target within reasonable range.

The following isn't really an opinion its fact, the heart controls blood pumping the blood is oxygenated by the lungs the connection is via arteries brain death occurs when the brain fails to get sufficient oxygen- destruction of the heart does not kill its the removal of the pump. No wild creatures can survive severe lung damage created by a broad-head passing through the centre of both the lungs or heart / arteries. I have seen a photo of a deer from autopsy that had previously recovered from damage to an outer lobe at the back of the lungs from a broad-head. That said I have personally seen and recovered three legged deer, deer minus their lower jaw etc from failed head shots, numerous small calibre and shotgun wounds.

Could deer management (which is a total mess in the UK at present) be improved by Bow hunting? Actually I think it could especially as regards to public and more populated urban land. If you think it was banned on humane grounds then I must disagree it was to do with poaching and protecting an asset, look were it has now landed us- deer in cities and town thousand of RTAs involving deer and wait for it an explosion in Lyme disease

 

Who am I to question your opinion? Remember the same applies in reverse and you can presume all you want to support your opinion but just perhaps you arent the shot you claim. Or just maybe I am better than you think ?

Arrogance is as bad as bowhunting - again just my opinion you carry on doing what you want - I have absolutely no interest.

[Scully]

Yes, there's fishing as well

Good point.

[kent]

Who am I to question your opinion? Remember the same applies in reverse and you can presume all you want to support your opinion but just perhaps you arent the shot you claim. Or just maybe I am better than you think ?

Arrogance is as bad as bowhunting - again just my opinion you carry on doing what you want - I have absolutely no interest.

 

Never said anything about anyones std of shooting, like I say its not an opinion on how death occurs but biological fact

[Ukdeer]

Who am I to question your opinion? Remember the same applies in reverse and you can presume all you want to support your opinion but just perhaps you arent the shot you claim. Or just maybe I am better than you think ?

Arrogance is as bad as bowhunting - again just my opinion you carry on doing what you want - I have absolutely no interest.

 

You came in on this topic with some quite bold statements on bowhunting which were incorrect. As this discussion went on you became even more defensive of your views and thoughts even though you have very little shooting experience and no bowhunting experience.Some of the things you come out with i have heard many times before from people with the same experience as you.But i have never come across anybody like you who prefers to totally disagree with people who are trying to educate you not only in bowhunting but also your own hobby of rifle shooting.Even when people try to put actual correct facts across to you ,you do no more than repeat the same incorrect facts again and again.The reason i got involved in this topic is because i get fed up with people like you acting like an expert on something you know very little about .Unless we try to put your incorrect statments right ,people reading about this topic also go away with incorrect facts and so the process would continue.

I honestly don't think you would listen to anybody trying to give you correct advice,if you have a different view. I only hope when you start deer stalking you do start to listen to people.

I dont get involved in discussions about things i know very little about ,i prefer to sit back read the comments,facts,views carefully and learn from them.

 

I think i will now leave my very knowledgeable fellow bowhunters to carry on with this topic.

 

ukdeer

[ordnance]

People seem to be trying to say that a bow has the potential to be as consistently accurate as a rifle out to 20 meters in my opinion this is rubbish. I have searched the net and see no evidence of this. If someone can find something on youtube or elsewhere then I will admit I am wrong. For me you use the most accurate tool available to try for a clean kill.

[kent]

People seem to be trying to say that a bow has the potential to be as consistently accurate as a rifle out to 20 meters in my opinion this is rubbish. I have searched the net and see no evidence of this. If someone can find something on youtube or elsewhere then I will admit I am wrong. For me you use the most accurate tool available to try for a clean kill.

Now, I don't shoot a bow but I do know I don't need to put bullets into the same hole as I should at 20mtrs to kill a deer. I am 100% confident in saying if a capable person practiced they could hit the critical area very effectively time after time. Having to get so close they have already proven their nerve and skill. I have seen quite a few easy deer missed and wounded by the novice with a rifle even though they could shoot fine on paper.

Accuracy only needs to be to the desired amount not equal to the rifle, the Bowman only needs to except what they can do and stick to those boundaries - that it the very point, having to get real close

[ordnance]

 

I have seen quite a few easy deer missed and wounded by the novice with a rifle even though they could shoot fine on paper.

Accuracy only needs to be to the desired amount not equal to the rifle, the Bowman only needs to except what they can do and stick to those boundaries - that it the very point, having to get real close

That's why I said the potential to be as accurate to take out the human factor. ( good shoots bad shoots.)People are posting that a bow can hit 2 pence pieces consistently at 20 yards. If someone can show me some evidence of this then I am wrong on the accuracy side of bow hunting. I have looked and can find no evidence that a bow can be that accurate no matter who is using it. If people bow hunt that's up to them but, they won't convince me that a bow is as effective as a HV rifle at humanely killing simply because its not.

[casts_by_fly]

That's why I said the potential to be as accurate to take out the human factor. ( good shoots bad shoots.)People are posting that a bow can hit 2 pence pieces consistently at 20 yards. If someone can show me some evidence of this then I am wrong on the accuracy side of bow hunting. I have looked and can find no evidence that a bow can be that accurate no matter who is using it. If people bow hunt that's up to them but, they won't convince me that a bow is as effective as a HV rifle at humanely killing simply because its not.

The easiest discipline to compare is nfaa 5 spot. You shoot at 20 yards at 5 small individual targets on the target face. Here is a good explanation:

 

http://charlesarcheryblog.wordpress.com/tag/how-to-score-nfaa-indoor-5-spot/

 

The x ring is 4 cm and most of the time you need a perfect 300 plus 45+ x's at club level. In the big leagues you need 55+ x rings.

 

Here is a video of someone shooting standard indoor where the bullseye is 1.5" and stacking the arrows, again, 20 yards.

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M76mUhoJSz4

 

Rick

Edited November 5, 2013 by casts_by_fly

[sirgoldalot]

People seem to be trying to say that a bow has the potential to be as consistently accurate as a rifle out to 20 meters in my opinion this is rubbish. I have searched the net and see no evidence of this. If someone can find something on youtube or elsewhere then I will admit I am wrong. For me you use the most accurate tool available to try for a clean kill.

 

You really are lacking in knowledge of the modern compound bow, you have know idea how they work the technology involved in both bow and arrow. I doubt if you even know what a release aid is..

you Insult sportsmanship with your blind views and comment against something you do not understand with total nagativaty...

simply put sir you are a revving rodney in my eyes..

 

and thats just my opinion

 

oh and heres what they can do at 20 yards ....free standing no sticks or bi pods at different targets ....can you do that with your rifle?

 

Edited November 5, 2013 by sirgoldalot

[wildrover77]

That's why I said the potential to be as accurate to take out the human factor. ( good shoots bad shoots.)People are posting that a bow can hit 2 pence pieces consistently at 20 yards. If someone can show me some evidence of this then I am wrong on the accuracy side of bow hunting. I have looked and can find no evidence that a bow can be that accurate no matter who is using it. If people bow hunt that's up to them but, they won't convince me that a bow is as effective as a HV rifle at humanely killing simply because its not.

I have only used a fancy compound hunting bow once, it had a fibre optic sight.

 

It was hitting a target 40m away accurately after 6 shots, I was shocked at how easy it was.

 

I see no reason why with a bit of practice and knowlege I could hunt quite humanely with a bow.

 

I do not see the logic to your argument, a rifle is not the most humane way to kill animals.

 

I have no real knowledge of bow hunting but can understand the concept that the animal will not know what hit it, it will simply get drowsy and fall over dead from blood loss. I understand most people that get stabbed do not realise they have been so until they see the blood, they believe they have been punched.

[ordnance]

 

I have no real knowledge of bow hunting but can understand the concept that the animal will not know what hit it, it will simply get drowsy and fall over dead from blood loss. I understand most people that get stabbed do not realise they have been so until they see the blood, they believe they have been punched.

Maybe its not that bad getting stabbed then if you just get drowsy and fall over dead I never thought of it like that. If you get shot in the chest with a HV bullet you definitely won't know what hit you.

 

Handguns and bows normally kill by blood loss, Handguns and bows don't have enough energy to cause the same damage as HV rifle bullets. The difference in survival rates between people hit with a handgun bullet and those hit with a HV rifle bullet confirms this.

 

 

oh and heres what they can do at 20 yards ....free standing no sticks or bi pods at different targets ....can you do that with your rifle?

I probably couldn't but I know people that could. If I was taking a shot at a deer for example I would not shoot standing up as prone or supported is a more accurate way of shooting. Also the targets in the video are not moving at the sound of the arrow being released something that could and does happen when shooting animals with a bow.

 

I have no issue with bow target shooting and as there is no chance of bow hunting returning to the UK it doesn't really matter what I think.

Edited November 5, 2013 by ordnance

[oscarsdad]

You really are lacking in knowledge of the modern compound bow, you have know idea how they work the technology involved in both bow and arrow. I doubt if you even know what a release aid is..

you Insult sportsmanship with your blind views and comment against something you do not understand with total nagativaty...

simply put sir you are a revving rodney in my eyes..

 

and thats just my opinion

 

oh and heres what they can do at 20 yards ....free standing no sticks or bi pods at different targets ....can you do that with your rifle?

 

 

I have seen much more impressive compound target shooting - I know people who could have shot better than than video with a recurve bow and I reckon even I as a lowly bowman could have done not much worse with my recurve.

 

I have seen 6 x's consistently at 90m with recurve bows and compounds doing the same but with much tighter grouping or smashing arrows (hence why compound targets are one shot to avoid this).

 

However, I totally agree - a bow is inherently stable at full draw and I see no reason why it is any less accurate within a sensible range than a rifle in the right hands. When I did my DSC1 in September there were very experienced guys with their own rifles failing the shooting test because they were so nervous and the grouping required at 100yds is not as high a requirement as to reach Master Bowman never mind grand master bowman - so rifles are not necessarily more accurate than bows.

Edited November 5, 2013 by oscarsdad

[sirgoldalot]

I have seen much more impressive compound target shooting - I know people who could have shot better than than video with a recurve bow and I reckon even I as a lowly bowman could have done not much worse with my recurve.

 

I have seen 6 x's consistently at 90m with recurve bows and compounds doing the same but with much tighter grouping or smashing arrows.

 

yeah i have shoot good portmouth round s myself that was just a video from some good ol boys from a small town in the usa that i quickly found just to show what is possible they are defiantly not Las Vagas shooters

 

Las Vagas the biggest purse in the world for compound archers

 

 

Edited November 5, 2013 by sirgoldalot

[Mentalmac]

http://www.teamwild.tv/hunting/10934-monster-hungarian-boar-bow-hunting-trauma

[oscarsdad]

Edited to remove the cut and paste text message from my kids school yesterday lol

that confused the hell out of me lol!

[Sprackles]

Have a look at this......just posting the pic, making no statement.

 

[casts_by_fly]

Have a look at this......just posting the pic, making no statement.

 

 

 

And?

 

The archer missed. It happens some times. It is unfortunate and regrettable. We can't know the situation it occured in, but suffice to say that it happens with a rifle too. If anything, it happens more frequently with a rifle as there are more people using rifles.

 

rick

[Sprackles]

Well actually the article it came from states she is trying to entice it regularly into her garden where she took these pics in the hope that the American Humane Society can dart the deer and remove the arrow.

The article also states that the deer seems to be able to function normally and is part of a herd of 4 which are roaming freely.

 

I also see you have named your pic 'fakey'...it comes up when you hover the mouse over it.....

 

Here is the article.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487874/New-Jersey-deer-picrured-arrow-face.html

Edited November 6, 2013 by Sprackles

[Sprackles]

I admit I should have added a Question Mark to the FAKEY title but as I said, it was a 2 minute google search. Regardless, anyone can miss and how many deer get their jaw shot off by callous head shooters?

Not denying any of that.....I just posted the pic without comment for peoples views,rather than give mine and take a side.....and just for the record, early on I said i would like to hunt with a crossbow so I am not at all anti in this.

[Vipa]

Have a look at this......just posting the pic, making no statement.

 

Not saying it is but that looks suspiciously photoshopped! That is't a modern broadhead either, it is a very old one with feather fletchings! that is not the type of arrow that would be used with a compound (nor is it a crossbow bolt) it is the kind of thing that would be used with a traditional longbow or possibly even a recurve.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Vipa