.223 FMJ steel penetration

[spandit]

I wanted a rugged target for plinking and so had hung a thick (12mm) piece of steel up on my range. The .22LR made a satisfying gong sound and the lead just vaporised. I assumed that since it was free hanging, it would absorb quite a bit of the shock from a larger calibre and not get damaged.

 

Was intrigued to find that my .223 (from 55 yards, Sako FMJ) made such impressive dents in it - even went right through when I hit close to a previously drilled hole.

 

 

Not the tightest group but I was shooting with a fence post to lean against but the ground was a bit slippery so wasn't as solidly planted as ideal. Only did 3 shots with 5 minutes in between each one before taking the rifle in for a good clean. It's nearly bedded in now but thank goodness we aren't allowed semi autos as the ammo cost would be crippling!

 

 

[Elk hunter]

Bballistic grade steel is used for CF targets, but it's obvious you need something a little thicker. Using fmj is a dangerous as if you get the steel thickness right you are going to get ricocheting rounds.

Use expanding ammo.

 

Andrew

[spandit]

Bballistic grade steel is used for CF targets, but it's obvious you need something a little thicker. Using fmj is a dangerous as if you get the steel thickness right you are going to get ricocheting rounds.

Use expanding ammo.

Andrew

I was using the FMJ as it was cheap, to break the barrel in. Danger duly noted. The rest of the ammo I have is expanding - might try shooting the plate with some tomorrow to see the difference.

[Elk hunter]

What you will fine is...if you use steel that will withstand the impact of expanding ammo, after time it will make the steel even softer. Giving a bulge at the back of the plate and eventually a hole.

Try getting hole of hardened steel instead of mild.

 

Have fun.

 

Andrew

[shotgun sam]

A while ago my brother in law shot a 1/4 inch steel plate at 100 yards with a ballistic tip 55 grain bullet out of his howa 1500 223.

As we walked up to the plate I asked him what would happen hitting the steel plate he said there would be a dent in it as he was using expanding bullets. We got there and he was astounded that there was a hole straight through it (backstop 50 foot wide midden).

For the next few months any tv program with people hiding behind car doors and being shot he would say rubbish my sister eventually got fed up with and told him to shut up.

[deershooter]

At 55 yards a freehand group should be better than that you need to sort out some better ammo and practice

 

Rested on any fence post I would expect 1 inch group

 

Deershooter

[spandit]

I am practicing. I've fired a grand total of 14 rounds since getting the rifle - at least these 3 were all on the same target! I was steadied against the side of the post, by the way, not on top of it (and fence wasn't exactly fresh either!)

[Dekers]

 

12mm steel plate, firmly supported, front and back pictures, none came close to fully penetrating, assorted ammo from 100 yards, and before anyone comments, they were deliberately spread to see the different effect. The .223 hardly marked the back!

 

Edit

There was a hell of a firework display as each round hit and I would not have wanted to be stood anywhere close, as bullet and steel sent red hot shards everywhere.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Dekers

[kent]

Don't fret about the groups, it will come. Just shoot well within you current capabilities which are normally about half as good as what you can do during practice. Metal shards from the steel is quite a danger I have seen then knock some nasty holes into sleepers

[JonathanL]

A while ago my brother in law shot a 1/4 inch steel plate at 100 yards with a ballistic tip 55 grain bullet out of his howa 1500 223.

As we walked up to the plate I asked him what would happen hitting the steel plate he said there would be a dent in it as he was using expanding bullets. We got there and he was astounded that there was a hole straight through it (backstop 50 foot wide midden).

For the next few months any tv program with people hiding behind car doors and being shot he would say rubbish my sister eventually got fed up with and told him to shut up.

 

There was a very good video out in the 1980's called 'Deadly Weapons' about the effects that various bullets had. A car door offers surprisingly good protection from certain bullets, .223 was one of them.

 

Car doors are very thin but they are not one piece of metal. They have other things in them. What was pointed out was that when a lightly constructed bullet like a .223 hits the door skin it is stressed immensely. This can cause it break apart or be so weakened that hitting anything else will do. A demonstration was done shooting an AR15 into a car door with a human shaped target inside the car to simulate someone trying to stop a suicide bomber. Only fragments of the bullet got through and it was concluded that that particular shot, fired at that particular door would not have incapacitated the driver.

 

They even fired .44 Magnum rounds at car doors - some made it through but some only got through in pieces. The problem is that car doors aren't just a piece of thin steel, they have other things like locking and window lifting mechanisms and motors in them.This is why things like the KTW metal piercing round were invented.

 

I seem to recall that a FMJ 7.62 round went through, intact, without any problems. As did a 12ga slug - as you would expect! I recall though that even the 7.62 bullet didn't exit the door on the other side.

 

J.

Edited November 20, 2013 by JonathanL

[GingerCat]

From experience most ammo goes straight through a car door.

If you want some bed time reading check out box o truth on the net. He has shot most things will full write ups.

Quite astonishing what slugs can do.

[kent]

 

There was a very good video out in the 1980's called 'Deadly Weapons' about the effects that various bullets had. A car door offers surprisingly good protection from certain bullets, .223 was one of them.

 

Car doors are very thin but they are not one piece of metal. They have other things in them. What was pointed out was that when a lightly constructed bullet like a .223 hits the door skin it is stressed immensely. This can cause it break apart or be so weakened that hitting anything else will do. A demonstration was done shooting an AR15 into a car door with a human shaped target inside the car to simulate someone trying to stop a suicide bomber. Only fragments of the bullet got through and it was concluded that that particular shot, fired at that particular door would not have incapacitated the driver.

 

They even fired .44 Magnum rounds at car doors - some made it through but some only got through in pieces. The problem is that car doors aren't just a piece of thin steel, they have other things like locking and window lifting mechanisms and motors in them.This is why things like the KTW metal piercing round were invented.

 

I seem to recall that a FMJ 7.62 round went through, intact, without any problems. As did a 12ga slug - as you would expect! I recall though that even the 7.62 bullet didn't exit the door on the other side.

 

J.

Trust me its little protection having personally seen the wounds of someone shot through a car door with a shotgun using std game load during a robbery. ,223 rem will invariably go clean through both doors let alone one at best it will deflect its path some

[spandit]

Don't fret about the groups, it will come. Just shoot well within you current capabilities which are normally about half as good as what you can do during practice. Metal shards from the steel is quite a danger I have seen then knock some nasty holes into sleepers

Thanks, buddy. To add to my flimsy defence, there wasn't an aiming point on the target, so nothing to really group on!

 

If someone would care to lend me a car door I'd gladly test it...

[Dekers]

Thanks, buddy. To add to my flimsy defence, there wasn't an aiming point on the target, so nothing to really group on!

 

If someone would care to lend me a car door I'd gladly test it...

 

In the vast majority of cases a .223 etc will go clean through BOTH car doors, there are obviously stronger parts and on the odd occasion it may not.

 

May I suggest anyone who doubts this sits in the car whilst we test the theory!

[JonathanL]

 

In the vast majority of cases a .223 etc will go clean through BOTH car doors, there are obviously stronger parts and on the odd occasion it may not.

 

May I suggest anyone who doubts this sits in the car whilst we test the theory!

The point the guy in the video was making is what you mention in your last sentence; not that it won't go through a car door; it usually will, easily, but rather the fact that you cannot simply assume that it will have the desired effect on the other side and that you shouldn't be too surprised if it doesn't. It doesn't take much to disintegrate a .223 bullet, after all. The real point is thatif you think you are going to have to shoot at cars then why would you pick a smaller more delecate bullet over a bigger, stronger one with more energy?

 

The even more salient point was that you really don't know what will happen until you try it. I must hunt out a copy of that and watch it again. It was rather surprising what bullets can't do that you would assume they could.

 

I'm not going to sit in a car while you shoot at me but, given the option of having the door closed or open, I know which I'd pick!

 

J.

[GingerCat]

Wouldn't be anywhere bear the door myself, considering we were taught to shoot through them until they were armoured.

 

Surprisingly 9mm will often bounce off tyres for some reason but quite shotgun loads shred them at the same range.

It is also differcult to set a car alight let alone explode it even with tracer rounds, but we did practically saw one in half with A few belts on the gpmg at about 400 yards.

 

To the op. Get thicker steel or just a nice box full of carpet and a steady supply of gaffer tape to patch it back up.

[spandit]

I'm guessing a military bullet with a steel core will go through better than a lead bullet.

 

I'm now going to paint some thinner sheet steel white and use the earth backstop to catch the bullets.

 

Funnily enough, I tried wrapping some paper round the steel plate but when I hit it with a .22LR, the sideways splatter of the bullet shredded the paper all round and it fell off. I reckon some scrap domestic goods could provide a useful source of white steel - satisfying clang and easy to see where one hit

 

Maybe when the MOT runs out on the Mondeo I'll get meself a shootin' car

[shotgun sam]

JonathanL

 

If you find a copy of the video will you post a link to it.

 

Sam

[GingerCat]

www.theboxotruth.com

 

Try that one, has some good reviese of old and unique guns too.

[kent]

I'm guessing a military bullet with a steel core will go through better than a lead bullet.

 

I'm now going to paint some thinner sheet steel white and use the earth backstop to catch the bullets.

 

Funnily enough, I tried wrapping some paper round the steel plate but when I hit it with a .22LR, the sideways splatter of the bullet shredded the paper all round and it fell off. I reckon some scrap domestic goods could provide a useful source of white steel - satisfying clang and easy to see where one hit

 

Maybe when the MOT runs out on the Mondeo I'll get meself a shootin' car

I think the hole is made through heat of friction actually melting the steel. A 55 grn varmint bullet from a .243 win will certainly go straight clean through a heavy steel RSJ no issue at considerable range, this is just a thin copper jacket and soft lead core ( if you think of it you might expect it to do no more than splatter - but.......)

[grimey121uk]

198g FMJ 8x57mm sat on top of 47.5g of N140 vs 0.45"/12mm steel plate, clean through and the steel didnt even move. The small scar is from a 20g FMJ 17HMR round I tried months earlier.

 

Interestingly I couldn't get anything to fully penetrate the fat part of a bowling pin, even 8mm surplus with a steel cored head, figure that?

 

In terms of a .223 being stopped by a car door, I don't think so. I have seen a car door shot with 22lr CCI stinger and it passed clean through at 25 yards.

 

Edited November 21, 2013 by grimey121uk

[JonathanL]

Interestingly I couldn't get anything to fully penetrate the fat part of a bowling pin, even 8mm surplus with a steel cored head, figure that?

 

 

Very strange. I've seen .303 bullets pass straight through bowling pins without even making them wobble.

 

Did you recover the bullet?

 

J.

[grimey121uk]

Very strange. I've seen .303 bullets pass straight through bowling pins without even making them wobble.

 

Did you recover the bullet?

 

J.

Non there wasn't an exit hole, it was a bowling pin from Hollywood bowl maybe they use super tough ones. Edited November 21, 2013 by grimey121uk

[welshwarrior]

The real point is thatif you think you are going to have to shoot at cars then why would you pick a smaller more delecate bullet over a bigger, stronger one with more energy?

 

J.

Because it's lighter you can carry more (nearly double 7.62) and it's what the government give you. It will very effectively stop a driver especially when common sense is applied and you shoot what you see ie through the glass bits!!!

 

But a slug or 338 to the engine block is a faster way to stop a car!!

[kent]

Because it's lighter you can carry more (nearly double 7.62) and it's what the government give you. It will very effectively stop a driver especially when common sense is applied and you shoot what you see ie through the glass bits!!!

 

But a slug or 338 to the engine block is a faster way to stop a car!!

 

Or an RPG