Beretta and Steel Shot - 686S / DT10

[Cawdor118]

I was cleaning both my guns tonight and after seeing a few threads about how a gun needs a fleur de lis before it is steel shot safe I thought I would check my guns...

 

And lone behold I can't see it anywhere on either of the barrels or actions?

 

Do beretta do it differently?

 

Cheers

[HDAV]

The HP steel proof is a CIP thing designed in the late 80's to proof for steel costs extra at most proof houses. Proof isn't a type approval every individual firearm needs proof not all manufacturers though it worthwhile paying for steel proof on guns that were designed to use steel loads. Proof is of no consideration in certain markets (namely the US).

 

Your guns are not steel proofed to CIP regulations, are they 3" chambered ?

[GingerCat]

It's annoying, my 390 is not steel proof marked yet the yanks chuck 3 inch shells through theirs all day long, mine was even us made.

Quite tempted to ignore it and use some sensible 3 inch steel through mine.

Gunsmith says less than half choke and it will handle pretty much anything steel wise.

[figgy]

If your DT10 has the optima bore barrel it should be fine as my Gold E uses this barrel and mine is steel shot proofed.

 

Figgy

[Westward]

As I understand it, Berettas are not submitted for proof because they are proofed in house and this is acceptable to the UK proof house. I would get the date codes from the barrels and ask GMK about it.

[HDAV]

As I understand it, Berettas are not submitted for proof because they are proofed in house and this is acceptable to the UK proof house. I would get the date codes from the barrels and ask GMK about it.

All CIP proof houses use the fleur de llys for HP steel no CIP proof no sale in uk............. They are proofed but not for HP steel

Edited December 2, 2013 by HDAV

[Westward]

We may be at cross purposes. Beretta has their own proof house which is a branch of the Italian CIP proof house and they use the fleur de lys stamp. What they don't do is submit guns for proofing in the UK - as many other makers do. The HP stamp is not always easy to spot either, so it's worth a close look.

[HDAV]

As i said no fleur de llys then not proofed for HP steel............ simples

 

Beretta may indeed have there own proof house but if they don't submit them for HP steel proof even having their own proof house what does that tell you

[Guest stevo]

I have just looked at my A300 manual and it clearly states , that its proofed to 1320 bar and is suitable for normal and HP steel shot .

Edited December 2, 2013 by stevo

[HDAV]

I have just looked at my A300 manual and it clearly states , that its proofed to 1320 bar and is suitable for normal and HP steel shot .

Does it have the fleur de llys stamp on the chamber?

[Westward]

As i said no fleur de llys then not proofed for HP steel............ simples

 

Beretta may indeed have there own proof house but if they don't submit them for HP steel proof even having their own proof house what does that tell you

They don't have to 'submit them' for anything. They have their own in house branch of the Italian proof house and current Berettas are proofed for HP steel and are stamped with the fleur de lys. That tells me they're okay for use with HP steel. What does it tell you?

[Guest stevo]

Does it have the fleur de llys stamp on the chamber?

Yes , it has the Fleur De Lys stamped on barrel , CIP mark stamped on barrel , the words " STEEL PROOFED" stamped on barrel and has tested to 1320 BAR stamped on barrel , and the manual confirms all of the above

Edited December 2, 2013 by stevo

[HDAV]

They don't have to 'submit them' for anything. They have their own in house branch of the Italian proof house and current Berettas are proofed for HP steel and are stamped with the fleur de lys. That tells me they're okay for use with HP steel. What does it tell you?

 

As long as they are stamped with fleur de llys then fine for HP steel no worries at all, those that aren't stamped with fleur de llys aren't proofed for HP steel thats a fact there are beretta of the same age, same series and some are HP steel proofed, some arent the acid test is the presence of the fleur de llys on that particular gun......

 

Beretta do have to submit them for proof even the proof house is internal and they can fail, they can choose to save money and not proof models which are sold outside the CIP markets namely the US.

 

The OP can't find the fleur de llys on his guns, that means he hasn't looked in the right place or they aren't proofed for HP steel (common on guns designed for trap shooting the DT10 very possibly has 2 3/4" chambers which can't be HP steel proofed, and fixed choke tighter than half.)

 

The manual is irrelevant its the proof marks that matter. You can if you wish submit your own gun for proof testing for HP steel if you wish.

[Cawdor118]

The HP steel proof is a CIP thing designed in the late 80's to proof for steel costs extra at most proof houses. Proof isn't a type approval every individual firearm needs proof not all manufacturers though it worthwhile paying for steel proof on guns that were designed to use steel loads. Proof is of no consideration in certain markets (namely the US).

Your guns are not steel proofed to CIP regulations, are they 3" chambered ?

Yeah both guns are 3" chambered, both multi choke and ones a Sporter and the other is a game gun.

Does it have the fleur de llys stamp on the chamber?

I can't see it... Where exactly should I look? Maybe I can't see the woods for the trees...

As long as they are stamped with fleur de llys then fine for HP steel no worries at all, those that aren't stamped with fleur de llys aren't proofed for HP steel thats a fact there are beretta of the same age, same series and some are HP steel proofed, some arent the acid test is the presence of the fleur de llys on that particular gun......

 

Beretta do have to submit them for proof even the proof house is internal and they can fail, they can choose to save money and not proof models which are sold outside the CIP markets namely the US.

 

The OP can't find the fleur de llys on his guns, that means he hasn't looked in the right place or they aren't proofed for HP steel (common on guns designed for trap shooting the DT10 very possibly has 2 3/4" chambers which can't be HP steel proofed, and fixed choke tighter than half.)

 

The manual is irrelevant its the proof marks that matter. You can if you wish submit your own gun for proof testing for HP steel if you wish.

DT10 is 3" chambered

[HDAV]

If they are 3" and multichoked then have a good look for the fleur de llys stamp it is small also check the top of the barrel near chambers for "steel Shot" or similar.

 

 

 

 

http://www.sportinggun.co.uk/features/536427/Gunsmiths_report_increase_in_shotguns_ruined_by_steel_shot.html

Edited December 2, 2013 by HDAV

[Cawdor118]

If they are 3! and multichoked then have a good look for the fleur de llys stamp it is small also check the top of the barrel near chambers for "steel Shot" or similar.

 

 

 

 

http://www.sportinggun.co.uk/features/536427/Gunsmiths_report_increase_in_shotguns_ruined_by_steel_shot.html

If I knew how to post photos I would post the photos of my gun. It defiantly doesn't have a fleur de llys...

 

It does say 18.3 whatever that refers to.

[HDAV]

18.3 is the bore measurement 18.3mm iirc

[HDAV]

Does it say 1320 bar? 1370 bar?

[HDAV]

"European gun manufacturers and retailers are often including "proofed for steel" in their advertising for new guns. We can take this to mean that the barrels and choke tubes have been constructed to ensure choke swelling does not occur, and that higher chamber pressures can be safely used from the CIP's High Performance group. It does not mean that an existing gun, without this proof stamp, is inherently unsafe to use steel loads which generate lower chamber pressures, comparable to existing lead shot loads. If in doubt about your gun see a competent gunsmith."

 

http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/fishing-and-hunting/game-hunting/game-hunting-education/non-toxic-shot/steel-shot-standards-pressures-and-proofing

 

What steel loads are you going to be shooting?

[Cawdor118]

Does it say 1320 bar? 1370 bar?

Not on the game gun, I haven't checked the DT10

[timps]

You can shoot standard steel shot through the DT 10 as long as it's not fixed choked as optima bore is standard steel safe, if you want to shoot HP steel shot then yes you need the fleur de llys.

 

Again the 686 will shoot standard steel shot as long as not fixed chokes and the chokes have "SP" stamped on them. The same caveat about HP steel though.

 

So in answer to your question the DT 10 it is standard steel safe but not HP steel proofed.

The 686 is the same but dependent on the chokes fitted.

All beretta fixed choke guns are not standard steel safe and would need the fleur de llys stamp if you wanted to use standard or HP steel shot.

Edited December 3, 2013 by timps

[HDAV]

You can shoot standard steel shot through the DT 10 as long as it's not fixed choked as optima bore is standard steel safe, if you want to shoot HP steel shot then yes you need the fleur de llys.

 

Again the 686 will shoot standard steel shot as long as not fixed chokes and the chokes have "SP" stamped on them. The same caveat about HP steel though.

 

So in answer to your question the DT 10 it is standard steel safe but not HP steel proofed.

The 686 is the same but dependent on the chokes fitted.

All beretta fixed choke guns are not standard steel safe and would need the fleur de llys stamp if you wanted to use standard or HP steel shot.

 

This is why i like my browning, 3" Fleur de llys i can shoot any cart on the UK market in any chamber up to 3" through my 1/4 and 3/8 chokes......

[Cawdor118]

You can shoot standard steel shot through the DT 10 as long as it's not fixed choked as optima bore is standard steel safe, if you want to shoot HP steel shot then yes you need the fleur de llys.

Again the 686 will shoot standard steel shot as long as not fixed chokes and the chokes have "SP" stamped on them. The same caveat about HP steel though.

So in answer to your question the DT 10 it is standard steel safe but not HP steel proofed.

The 686 is the same but dependent on the chokes fitted.

All beretta fixed choke guns are not standard steel safe and would need the fleur de llys stamp if you wanted to use standard or HP steel shot.

Cheers mate!

[utectok]

Remember most modern shotguns will handle normal steel loads it is only hp cip loads that need the higher proof. Some modern guns did not have the design changed for hp steel just changed their proof pressures. I believe this is the case with modern berettas. Some Wildfowlers I know shot hp steel through berettas with no hp proof marks obviously this is a risk but worth mentioning. I have a 1994 686 with no hp marks but 3" chamber and shoot hp steel through it and have had no problems but that's my choice.

Edited December 3, 2013 by utectok