Fac fox calibre

[r1steele]

In muzzle energy no not by a long way, .17 is smaller than .20 so I am not sure which angle but either way incorrect. .20 Ruger is based on the old .222 mag case and is about as big as small centre fires get (based on case and action size required)

Hi Kent, I wasn't questioning the cartridge size but was only trying to point out that the .22 Hornet wasn't really the smallest true foxer. .22 is a larger calibre then a .20. I know what you mean about the case and muzzle energy etc but calibre wise the .204 is smaller. I also agree that the .22 Hornet is a true foxing rifle and a very good one at that. If you are only after foxes and don't have large fields to shoot over you don't really need anything bigger in reality. Most people shoot foxes at less than 200yds (especially on the lamp) and it is more a than capable round.

[LEE243]

Any of the .22 centrefires are suitable for fox i have shot 222 & 222.50 but i chose .243 so i could shoot deer as well and being perfect for the farm fields i shoot in on a big farm in Ropley.

But also have lot smallish farms and permissions around me who wanted the foxes sorted, the rimfire was used for only close shots

I looked at the 204 but chose the .22 hornet well its my favourite gun now and on saturday night i shot my 90th fox with it.The longest shot has been 180yards but most between 70-130 yards using 35 grain vmax you rarely get an exit and drops them on the spot.

So i think the hornet is a suitable foxing gun

Atb Lee

Edited December 11, 2013 by LEE243

[Dekers]

devon and cornwall allow .17HMR for fox.

however, they do generally advise only sensible ranges.

 

make of that what you will...

 

Stupid, I had sight of a FAC recently that actually stated close range Fox (no definition of close range) as a condition of HMR, ridiculous.

 

You may just as well condition a .243 for deer "at sensible ranges", or a .308 for deer "a bit further out"!

[Dekers]

Any of the .22 centrefires are suitable for fox i have shot 222 & 222.50 but i chose .243 so i could shoot deer as well and being perfect for the farm fields i shoot in on a big farm in Ropley.

But also have lot smallish farms and permissions around me who wanted the foxes sorted, the rimfire was used for only close shots

I looked at the 204 but chose the .22 hornet well its my favourite gun now and on saturday night i shot my 90th fox with it.The longest shot has been 180yards but most between 70-130 yards using 35 grain vmax you rarely get an exit and drops them on the spot.

So i think the hornet is a dedicated foxing gun

Atb Lee

 

I hear this term all the time and still struggle with its usage in connection with firearms................

 

Dedicated

1. wholly committed to something.

2. set apart or reserved for a specific use or purpose.

The last thing I want is ANY of my guns being dedicated to any use!

[remmy1100]

Your licensing authority is Northumbria, i come under the same force as well. It is my understanding that Northumbria won't condition HMR for Fox. Am i correct on this? Obviously they must now allow it as you say you are using your HMR.

Just out of interest as sometimes the HMR would be useful in situations where i could'nt use the 243. We know the HMR is capable if ranges are kept to within 100 yards.

ATB,

Pat

yeah northumbria allow hmr on fox they class fox as vermin as such covered by vermin condition,we may both be under northumbria but id guess your firearms dept is durham as mine is cramlington and durham dont sing from same hymn sheet lol

Edited December 10, 2013 by remmy1100

[r1steele]

 

 

I hear this term all the time and still struggle with its usage in connection with firearms................

 

Dedicated

1. wholly committed to something.

2. set apart or reserved for a specific use or purpose.

The last thing I want is ANY of my guns being dedicated to any use!

 

Agree as I have my guns as AOLQ but I think they are using the term 'dedicated' as opposed to saying the rifle is used primarily for foxes. People tend to get certain calibres for certain uses. I have a .17hmr as my rabbit gun but still take other quarry. There will be a small percentage of people who actually do have a dedicated rifle for some reason or other such as certificate conditions so they have no choice but to have a dedicated fox rifle.

[kent]

Hi Kent, I wasn't questioning the cartridge size but was only trying to point out that the .22 Hornet wasn't really the smallest true foxer. .22 is a larger calibre then a .20. I know what you mean about the case and muzzle energy etc but calibre wise the .204 is smaller. I also agree that the .22 Hornet is a true foxing rifle and a very good one at that. If you are only after foxes and don't have large fields to shoot over you don't really need anything bigger in reality. Most people shoot foxes at less than 200yds (especially on the lamp) and it is more a than capable round.

 

Yes I wasn't having a go, just clarifying for those just starting out. I really don't see an issue with .17 rem as a foxer the old guidance notes separated .17 rem and .22 hornet out from the rest as fox and small vermin guns. 17 rem is a long establish Coyote killer for the States with minimum pelt damage. Of course all the .17 are smaller again as regards calibre width

[Dekers]

 

 

I hear this term all the time and still struggle with its usage in connection with firearms................

 

Dedicated

1. wholly committed to something.

2. set apart or reserved for a specific use or purpose.

The last thing I want is ANY of my guns being dedicated to any use!

 

 

 

Agree as I have my guns as AOLQ but I think they are using the term 'dedicated' as opposed to saying the rifle is used primarily for foxes. People tend to get certain calibres for certain uses. I have a .17hmr as my rabbit gun but still take other quarry. There will be a small percentage of people who actually do have a dedicated rifle for some reason or other such as certificate conditions so they have no choice but to have a dedicated fox rifle.

 

 

My point entirely, whilst an unfortunate few may have a specific calibre/rifle dedicated to a specific quarry/condition, that is the last thing I would want, so what is wrong with Primary?

 

Just thinking out loud really, but Dedicated is not good/clever for many.

[kent]

To clarify

"dedicated" is a term that has been used by many Firearms licencing depts. I don't think it necessarily a bad thing, what they mean is the calibre is ok to keep for foxing alone if you loose your deerstalking land say as in the case of "may be used for fox when stalking" it can also be used at night which cannot be said of the "can be used while" term as legally with the exception of a Scottish night licence you cannot go lamping with a "can be used while" gun .

 

AOLQ is a good term to have but personally I just have an odd reservation about its widespread use across the board for all users.It will be misused by some personally I shouldn't feel comfortable with people out with 30 cal magnums and the like shooting foxes on suburban golf courses and similar, there is no need and although a safe shot is a safe shot there are limits to the remark as regards good practice

[kent]

I hear this term all the time and still struggle with its usage in connection with firearms................

 

Dedicated

1. wholly committed to something.

2. set apart or reserved for a specific use or purpose.

 

The last thing I want is ANY of my guns being dedicated to any use!

And many use the term dedicated so they can get another toy ie Dedicated night vision etc. The whole thing need viewing in full and cuts both ways. Of course the user has no choice if his area see things that way as mine do

[r1steele]

 

 

 

 

My point entirely, whilst an unfortunate few may have a specific calibre/rifle dedicated to a specific quarry/condition, that is the last thing I would want, so what is wrong with Primary?

 

Just thinking out loud really, but Dedicated is not good/clever for many.

Totally agree and it's about time all forces realised this.

[Dekers]

To clarify

"dedicated" is a term that has been used by many Firearms licencing depts. I don't think it necessarily a bad thing, what they mean is the calibre is ok to keep for foxing alone if you loose your deerstalking land say as in the case of "may be used for fox when stalking" it can also be used at night which cannot be said of the "can be used while" term as legally with the exception of a Scottish night licence you cannot go lamping with a "can be used while" gun .

 

AOLQ is a good term to have but personally I just have an odd reservation about its widespread use across the board for all users.It will be misused by some personally I shouldn't feel comfortable with people out with 30 cal magnums and the like shooting foxes on suburban golf courses and similar, there is no need and although a safe shot is a safe shot there are limits to the remark as regards good practice

 

That doesn't make sense, "and what they mean is" doesn't either, therefore it is a bad thing. If they want to say something they should say it, not leave it up to kent to define their meaning for us.

 

In reality the term Dedicated as a FAC condition will be rare anyway, my reference to this word was really directed at the number of shooters who use the term, and should learn not to, unless they want their usage restricted!

 

PRIMARY is a much better word.

[r1steele]

To clarify

"dedicated" is a term that has been used by many Firearms licencing depts. I don't think it necessarily a bad thing, what they mean is the calibre is ok to keep for foxing alone if you loose your deerstalking land say as in the case of "may be used for fox when stalking" it can also be used at night which cannot be said of the "can be used while" term as legally with the exception of a Scottish night licence you cannot go lamping with a "can be used while" gun .

 

AOLQ is a good term to have but personally I just have an odd reservation about its widespread use across the board for all users.It will be misused by some personally I shouldn't feel comfortable with people out with 30 cal magnums and the like shooting foxes on suburban golf courses and similar, there is no need and although a safe shot is a safe shot there are limits to the remark as regards good practice

I think I'd rather a .30 cal being used safely rather then a .22 rimfire not being used safely.

[Dekers]

And many use the term dedicated so they can get another toy ie Dedicated night vision etc. The whole thing need viewing in full and cuts both ways. Of course the user has no choice if his area see things that way as mine do

 

That is bull kent as you well know, dedicated night vision is a MUCH wider term than dedicated fox! You might as well say my XYZ gun is a dedicated animal removal gun! How does it cut both ways, has your region granted you specific dedicated conditions on your FAC?

 

For instance, when you ask for a dedicated Night Vision setup, does it actually say that as a condition, it will be a first for me if you can show me a FAC saying that!

Edited December 10, 2013 by Dekers

[SSS]

I shoot all of my foxes with a .222. They all dead, just the same as one which has been shot with any of the aforementioned calibres. Stick to a .22cf and you won't go wrong. My BSA shoots Privi rounds at 1moa. Cheap and cheerful at just over 50p per shot. Rabbits are wasted when I shoot them with it though. Even headshots do more damage than you could understand.

Edited December 10, 2013 by SSS

[kent]

That is bull kent as you well know, dedicated night vision is a MUCH wider term than dedicated fox! You might as well say my XYZ gun is a dedicated animal removal gun! How does it cut both ways, has your region granted you specific dedicated conditions on your FAC?

 

For instance, when you ask for a dedicated Night Vision setup, does it actually say that as a condition, it will be a first for me if you can show me a FAC saying that!

Keep you hair on! I am only repeating what I have been told by them and as well you know, the cops change their tune with the wind. Mentors, courses, Level 1 all this associated BS never existed once over and the law never changed.

I will have a whole harted laughing fit when I see or hear "dedicated AOLQ" and with some of the dafter terms I have seen it will come

Perhaps we should have a PW comp on who has the stupidest remark or term on their ticket?

Edited December 10, 2013 by kent

[Dekers]

Keep you hair on! there is someone on a forum every week speaking of their second .22 being granted only as a dedicated NV gun or a HMR and .22 one being granted on same basis but not two, equally I have known people (myself included) who have been told they hold too many guns listed for X purpose. I don't make the stupid bits the cops invent. There is certainly people with such a term but exact wording will likely say "May be used for ......." rather than dedicated but on Lancs system the "dedicated" term is used in discussion. Now if you cert says "may be used for......" that's quite clear and you cannot add bits. I don't invent their BS like I say

 

There are people on the forum all the time talking of Dedicated tools, show me a condition that says that! I used that one for my second .22lr, told them I really wanted to set one up for night vision, fine, granted, second .22lr on FAC, get what you want NO conditions!

 

Your post above simply corroborates my original statement that Dedicated is BS, very seldom seen on FAC as a condition and would best be avoided as a term by shooters!

[jamie g]

they all kill.. i would look at budget you have for a set up and go from there. 22 hornet is a great little calibre. and doesnt use alot of powder at all. but imo 223 is a great choice. its munty and cwd legal.

has a great choice of bullets.

[al4x]

you'd be nuts to go for a hornet when the "primary use" is foxing, why limit yourself with a lowpower out dated caliber

 

yes you will be fine on a fair proportion of foxes but what about the rest

[Kes]

Just out of interest, do all of you go out with 2 rifles or shoot bunnies with larger than strictly necessary calibres. Maybe you only go out for a single species ?

I like to go out for a shot - sometimes foxes specifically (.223) and sometimes to take what comes my way (that will be the .17 Hornet but is currently a .22LR). I dont need a .22 Hornet and have a .243 but its not as good as my .223 for foxes. Someone earlier said they zeroed their .223 at .200 yds and dropped sights 1" at a hundred - great choice.

Quite looking forward to a .17 H for a 'walkabout gun', gutting rabbits with a .223 at 150 yds isnt worth the £1.00 cost

This is just my personal view - there are NO RULES.

[al4x]

Go out in company is the simple one or different rifle for different situation, I sure wouldn't want a hornet from the truck roof lamping or a high seat. Lamping it's simple 2 on top one with a gun to shoot foxes and one for rabbits. Most of the winter it's just foxes as it's mostly on pheasant shoots

[Archie-fox]

I take the 17hmr and 223 when im lamping,

 

if i want a few rabbits then i take the hmr out first and shoot a few for the pot, if a fox should come my way then i have the hmr conditioned for fox so less than 80 yards il go for a shot on it..

 

but then i go back to the farm grab the 223, and all my foxing gear and just stick to the foxes, leaving the rabbits alone..

 

in my opinion for foxing the 223 takes some beating, low recoil,pleanty of ammo and second hand rifles about, and will take foxes out to 250 yards easy...and well moderated it wont wake up the countryside.. ive had about 35/40 foxes this year with mine, not 1 issue with it.

[LEE243]

I have edited my post as i do agree with Dekers about the word dedicated what i was trying to say is that the Hornet is certainly up to the job.

Ive shot lots of crows magpies rabbits and a few hares not just foxes with it.

Atb Lee

[kent]

yadda, yadda , yadda. Hornets no good need a bigger gun,.17 hmr is ok though yadda ,yadda,yadda. Kill hundreds of foxes on the estate, yadda yadda.

 

Makes you wonder why there are still so many about don't it just ? Keeper round these parts was getting more than the odd fox he could expect his P45 more than a pat on the back after his first season was behind him.

 

Fact still remains that if the chooser understands the limitations at the lower and higher ends correctly he may use whatever they feel best suits their purpose. Just as a .260 rem with 95 v-max cannot harvest a few rabbits or Hares after a blank night out for fox. A .22 Hornet cannot handle 250 yards in a good blow (they are both non the less excellent choices). The user only he must choose. Bigger, smaller just decide to fit the individual need, personally I go for one big and one little. Some might just need a big gun, some just a little one.