bostonmick Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Ok, which other costs do you suggest I absorb, like you say, costs go up, its called inflation and when my costs go up enough they get passed on, which part of that don't you understand, tell Asda, Tesco, the Energy suppliers, etc etc they really need to look at their business plan if they can't all absorb a few cost increases, and tell all their customers they need to stop complaining and just pay up! the customers do pay the extra that's business I am afraid.costs are passed up the line I remember the days when diesel bill was around 12.000 per year then it went up in a few years and last one was just over 50.000 and guess what it was passed on as is usual.and at the end of the day we are talking about some twenty quid a year.have you really got nothing bigger in life to deal with than the cost of fac/sgc.I as a business have no right to expect others to pick up the tab for me and others don't have the right for me to pick it up for them its a hard life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 so we have the public should pay as it is there to protect them,and the business that is run to earn a profit and the public should subsidise that also because?.perhaps they should sub your cartridges as well.also my range rover needs a brake overhaul and a mot in the interest of safety for the public perhaps they should pay for that as well. Firearms licensing has nothing to do with your Range Rover; you don't even need to show your driving license prior to buying a car. The same cannot be said about buying a firearm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 If you want to pay the full cost of renewal then go and pay your region the £196, I am sure they will be grateful, or give the extra to some good cause, have I ever suggested you shouldn't, but kindly do not tell me how to run my business, or spend my money for me or tell me what my clients can afford to pay! but it is perfectly acceptable for you to expect the public to pick up the tab for you.also would you not claim it back as a business expense so in effect not really costing you a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I see now why your customers could not stand a small increase as they are only multi nationals and armed forces.and yes mate I know what a risk assessment and method statement is done hundreds of them I know just how worthless they are in the real world.i am a little curious as to how you shoot a pigeon off a 12,000,000 pound piece of equipment with a shotgun or rifle without damaging anything else as the spread of shot or the bullet would go straight through.but as you say you are the expert,and with expertise comes higher cost. Ha Ha, that says it all, expert ...... well I did it, but I prefer experienced! I had a similar type of shot with a crow that had been damaging customers car window/headlight rubbers at a garden centre as well, that got removed from a site owned 4x4 wing mirror, strange as it may seem no damage caused at all, except to the crow! I'm a little curious as to how I could shoot a bird sitting on £12,000,000 of equipment at 80 yards with a shotgun as well, without causing a level of collateral damage, perhaps that is why I didn't choose that option, I simply selected the right rifle and ammo and took the appropriate shot. That's why people pay me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Firearms licensing has nothing to do with your Range Rover; you don't even need to show your driving license prior to buying a car. The same cannot be said about buying a firearm. quite right but it needs to be safe for when I go out on public roads.and you make a good point perhaps the fac/sgc should be more like a driving license and there should be a test/course before you get one at your cost of course.see some good ideas can come from these forums after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 but it is perfectly acceptable for you to expect the public to pick up the tab for you.also would you not claim it back as a business expense so in effect not really costing you a great deal. Loads of business expenses don't cost a great deal and virtually everything is deductible, they are still costs and get passed on. Joe Public pays for it all regardless, it doesn't matter if he "subsidises" my FAC or I charge him for it, he pays, it's business, which part don't you understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 anyway I will say goodnight to you all as I have to go check the stock and then off to bed.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I will check which forces are doing on line applications etc, BASC got commitment from the HO last Autumn that fees would be held pending further investigation, not least of all to check the real costs of licencing, as we refused to accept the costs proposed by ACPO, not least of all because some forces are not efficient and its not fair to pay a higher price for an inefficient system, our position its as simple as that. David Thanks David I wish JonathonL would come back at this point......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) quite right but it needs to be safe for when I go out on public roads Yes it does, but that, again, has nothing to do with the cost of your driving license, nor would a firearms test have any bearing on the cost of a firearms license. Your driving test has no bearing on the cost of your driving license. Edited February 10, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 quite right but it needs to be safe for when I go out on public roads.and you make a good point perhaps the fac/sgc should be more like a driving license and there should be a test/course before you get one at your cost of course.see some good ideas can come from these forums after all. Good god man do you have money to throw away, you advocate £195 licence fees,then you want everyone to pay for a test/course all at your own expense,you are in la la land. The restrictions we have imposed on us now are placed there to make things supposedly safer,that is until you read of the handgun crime that is rife in our citys,a lot of the licence process could be streamlined and made sensible,one for one on moderators for example,is there really a need,the same could be said for one for one variations on rifles,if the police invested in a computerised system that rfd's used then surely going in with a rifle buying another and having it registered on a computer database would save thousands of man hours and money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 that's all well and good but in the case of the police service they farm out the fireams dept to save costs which in real terms is a profit for them the company doing the job has to earn a profit and all this has to be done where the applicant gets a better service and that has not changed its prices in some 12 years.i can think of nothing else that has gone down in price or not had a increase in that time.or is it that the holders of firearms who wish to pursue the sport for pleasure should be subsidised by the general public through their rates and taxes.everything in this life has to be paid for and cover the real cost.shooting not excluded.and if you think that mr Cameron is doing anything for our benefit then that's the next surprise awaiting many.mm, think your more than a little mixed up if the police made a profit- the government would and should reduce their funding and take it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 mm, think your more than a little mixed up if the police made a profit- the government would and should reduce their funding and take it back. I said they save money which in real terms is the same as a profit.and do you seriously believe that all government agencies are run as non profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Good god man do you have money to throw away, you advocate £195 licence fees,then you want everyone to pay for a test/course all at your own expense,you are in la la land. The restrictions we have imposed on us now are placed there to make things supposedly safer,that is until you read of the handgun crime that is rife in our citys,a lot of the licence process could be streamlined and made sensible,one for one on moderators for example,is there really a need,the same could be said for one for one variations on rifles,if the police invested in a computerised system that rfd's used then surely going in with a rifle buying another and having it registered on a computer database would save thousands of man hours and money. I have the money to spend on the things I choose.the reason for this is largely down to the fact that I managed my business in a business successfully.my comment regarding a course was as I am sure you knew a little tongue in cheek but some training is a good thing.i take it you would expect the general public to pay the cost for upgrading the computer system in the firearms department so as to not inconvenience your good self.as for your statement of gun crime being rife a couple of months ago I believe it was Jonathon who posted home office figures that shows an actual drop.so do I take it you just wish to argue on mis information.this thread as with most others on here has gone far away from the original post but as none of it matters why not.as I said you should pay your own way in life and all you do and fac/sgc are no exception. Edited due to predicted text errors Edited February 11, 2014 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I have the money to spend on the things I choose.the reason for this is largely down to the fact that I managed my business in a business successfully.my comment regarding a course was as I am sure you knew a little tongue in cheek but some training is a good thing.i take it you would expect the general public to pay the cost for upgrading the computer system in the firearms department so as to not inconvenience your good self.as for your statement of gun crime being rife a couple of months ago I believe it was Jonathon who posted home office figures that shows an actual drop.so do I take it you just wish to argue on mis information.this thread as with most others on here has gone far away from the original post but as none of it matters why not.as I said you should pay your own way in life and all you do and fac/sgc are no exception. Edited due to predicted text errors Hand guns are banned(you can be issued but only under certain circumstances) when the law was changed thousands of handguns were taken from legitimate owners ,so how do we have shootings on the streets with handguns?,the statistics may have gone down, but they show that handgun crime is real,how can that be they are banned? Yes I would expect the computer system to be paid for out of the public purse, as it is the public that demand such stringent and complex licensing,and I would also expect the police to move forward and use such a system,thus streamlining and making the system more efficient, which in the long term will actually save money for the public purse.You would know being in business that investing in the long term will yield results if the right process and tools are put in place. As for your comment about courses being tounge in cheek, I see no evidence in that, no smiley face no roll eyes, in fact it was said in the same breath as increasing prices,which you seem only to keen on and argue the point endlessly,or is that just tounge in cheek as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I said they save money which in real terms is the same as a profit.and do you seriously believe that all government agencies are run as non profit. saving money is the same as profit is it? No! Just as well they don't have to make profit isn't it to be fair ? - is that were you learned your economic theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Hand guns are banned(you can be issued but only under certain circumstances) when the law was changed thousands of handguns were taken from legitimate owners ,so how do we have shootings on the streets with handguns?,the statistics may have gone down, but they show that handgun crime is real,how can that be they are banned? Yes I would expect the computer system to be paid for out of the public purse, as it is the public that demand such stringent and complex licensing,and I would also expect the police to move forward and use such a system,thus streamlining and making the system more efficient, which in the long term will actually save money for the public purse.You would know being in business that investing in the long term will yield results if the right process and tools are put in place. As for your comment about courses being tounge in cheek, I see no evidence in that, no smiley face no roll eyes, in fact it was said in the same breath as increasing prices,which you seem only to keen on and argue the point endlessly,or is that just tounge in cheek as well? My word has the education system of this country really brought us to a level where smiley faces and other nonsensical rubbish is part of the English language.yes I invested in the business at my cost initially and recovers it over time through greater efficiency but also through increased costs to customers. As is normal in business.the public do not demand stringent control on firearms in fact given the choice they would vote for a total ban.i would like to place a silly face on my posts but my phone does not support such rubbish.i notice you neglected yo commen further on the gun crime being rife or have you not had time to google it.(smiley face.wink wink) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 saving money is the same as profit is it? No! Just as well they don't have to make profit isn't it to be fair ? - is that were you learned your economic theory No I learnt my economic theory in the real world and practised the same right up to the point where I retired some seven years early because I could.my ways and my business proved to be a success can't argue with fact old boy.(winking face) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Mick i suggest you read my first paragraph again,and it shows you are out of touch with technology if you cannot master something as simple as a smiley face. Sent from my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 well I have a lumia phone and when I press the smiley symbol it brings up a load of numbers and other markings.no silly pictures.i dont need to be in touch with technology now as it is not important in my life.but none of this hides the fact that those using a service should pay for such and only when the true cost is paid can you demand a better service.in the meantime while you insist on being subsidised then you must accept what you have.we used to say put up or shut up.(big smiley winky face) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travlaa Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Wow you guys have way too much time on your hands. I think the main thing in all of this is that, some forces are currently managing perfectly with the budget that they have, whereas others are struggling. There is a huge gap between 5 week turnarounds and 19 week turnarounds that others are suggesting. This gap can't just be caused by being busy, there has to be an element of poor time management in there as well. Therefore the long term answer cannot be to charge more and increase staff employed. They need to fix there internal management issues first, and then they may be able to justify any kind of price increase. Also you cannot go from £50 to £190 and claims it's due to inflation.....so the reason has to be justified. I work in an office and if I am extremely busy, I work more hours to catch up and ensure my clients get the best possible service I can offer. I am not paid any extra for this, but I know there are 1000's of unemployed graduates with better degrees than I have, just waiting to take a job like mine. I'm not particularly well paid, but I have great aspirations and it took me a long time to save up the money to purchase my shotgun + all the costs that go with it. Unfortunately I think that some of the firearm departments lack this commitment in there offices, and yet there are people who could fill these roles and would be grateful for the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 well I have a lumia phone and when I press the smiley symbol it brings up a load of numbers and other markings.no silly pictures.i dont need to be in touch with technology now as it is not important in my life.but none of this hides the fact that those using a service should pay for such and only when the true cost is paid can you demand a better service.in the meantime while you insist on being subsidised then you must accept what you have.we used to say put up or shut up.(big smiley winky face) If i am to have a restriction placed on me then i woyld expect the body that implements it to run efficiently ,this unfortunatly is not the case and so it costs in burecratic waste.why should i pay more for a system that is drowning in its own inefficiency. And for your information, take one of ; and then without a space one of these ) and you have one of See you have learned something today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 If i am to have a restriction placed on me then i woyld expect the body that implements it to run efficiently ,this unfortunatly is not the case and so it costs in burecratic waste.why should i pay more for a system that is drowning in its own inefficiency. And for your information, take one of ; and then without a space one of these ) and you have one of See you have learned something today If only I could have used your reasoning years ago with the inland revenue.customs and excise(vat)and local council rates as all are inefficient I could have retired years ago on the money I had to pay in.. I notice that basc are against a license fee increase.yet they are no against their own rising from time to time.(lots of smileys and winky's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) If only I could have used your reasoning years ago with the inland revenue.customs and excise(vat)and local council rates as all are inefficient I could have retired years ago on the money I had to pay in.. I notice that basc are against a license fee increase.yet they are no against their own rising from time to time.(lots of smileys and winky's)All the agencies you mention above realised their inefficiencies and did things about it,and now all offer(some insist) online payments and accounts,by doing my tax online( well my accountant) I was even given a couple of hundred pounds back for the 1st couple of years.They all realised they were inefficient and changed. Glad to see you have mastered a smiley,your day on line has not been wasted Edited February 11, 2014 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 No I learnt my economic theory in the real world and practised the same right up to the point where I retired some seven years early because I could.my ways and my business proved to be a success can't argue with fact old boy.(winking face)I can I gave up at 42 yrs, obviously you got very, very lucky- it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Wow you guys have way too much time on your hands. I think the main thing in all of this is that, some forces are currently managing perfectly with the budget that they have, whereas others are struggling. There is a huge gap between 5 week turnarounds and 19 week turnarounds that others are suggesting. This gap can't just be caused by being busy, there has to be an element of poor time management in there as well.Therefore the long term answer cannot be to charge more and increase staff employed. They need to fix there internal management issues first, and then they may be able to justify any kind of price increase.Also you cannot go from £50 to £190 and claims it's due to inflation.....so the reason has to be justified.I work in an office and if I am extremely busy, I work more hours to catch up and ensure my clients get the best possible service I can offer. I am not paid any extra for this, but I know there are 1000's of unemployed graduates with better degrees than I have, just waiting to take a job like mine. I'm not particularly well paid, but I have great aspirations and it took me a long time to save up the money to purchase my shotgun + all the costs that go with it. Unfortunately I think that some of the firearm departments lack this commitment in there offices, and yet there are people who could fill these roles and would be grateful for the work. I have time on my hands well it is raining come better weather I will be out shooting and other pastimes.there are some departments as you say that do not run efficiently but did you realise that a lot of fao positions are part time and only just above minimum wage so no wonder they have no great enthusiasm.also as you must be aware these hours are mostly unsocial hours so as to accommodate the applicants lifestyle and fit in visits around them.also there is a lot of responsibility placed on them as they are charged in the first instance to make the recommendations as to grant or not grant and if something goes wrong who gets it in the neck first.for around 7.00 pr hour.so if you were to increase their hours to say forty instead of twelve or sixteen the whole process may be speeded up yet it would cost a little more.i have over the years worked 16 and 18 hours a day and yes for my own benefit which I am now reaping.and i suspect your extra work will bring you rewards in the future.the license fee has not risen since 2001 so in fairness is due a rise if you stuck with inflation it would probably be around 100 now.guns rise about 8% a year cartridges as much as 20% yet i dont see the same level of complaint over this.the old saying is true you get what you pay for and nought more.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.