.308 for Fox, advice required please

[jonnys]

Hi folks, I'm fairly new to shooting, and very new to using a .308 and deer stalking.

 

I bought a Tikka T3 Lite .308 about a year ago, I wanted a .308 as I'm working towards my DSC L2 and the land I stalk has Reds, also the BASC Scheme I use at Kings Forest has Reds and Fallow and they like a calibre of that size for these type of deer. Therefore I didn't want to restrict myself to a .243.

 

I now want to do some fox shooting on the land I have for deer stalking, but rather than buy a .243 (which I have on my FAC if I want one), I'm thinking about using my .308 and reducing the round down to say 100 grain.

 

My FAC says I can use my .308 "for shooting deer, and any other lawful quarry" so no issues there as far as I can see?

 

Also my .308 T3 lite doesn't have a silencer, and it kicks like a mule, so I want to get a siliencer to help out with this but they seem to be about £250, so I'd rather put the money towards that before getting a .243. On that note - any recommendations on which silencer to get please?

 

I will get myself a .243 in the next year, but to get me off the starting blocks, keep the farmer happy by shooting his foxes, and stop my 308 recoiling by adding a silencer - can anyone see a reason my I shouldn't use my .308 for a year or so until I get a .243?

 

Are there any considerations I haven't thought of?

 

Many thanks in advance for any help/advice.

 

Jonny

[kent]

Sell it and get a .243. You will need two loads but that's no different from the .308. .243 win and large deer has only two points worthy of note 1. not all 100 grain deer bullets perform equally on the terminal performance 2. the user should know how to place his shots and be experienced enough to wait for the correct shot. one moderator, one scope, one gun and you should become very good with it and save a few grand

The .308 win is versatile sure but don't take the fact that bullets are made as meaning you can just bob out and buy 100 grn as and when from the RFD and it is well over the ideal range the .308 can use 100-220 grain but it don't mean they will all work great in your gun.

[CharlieT]

Personally, I would stick with the.308 and buy a moderator.

I presume you're using something like 150gr partitions or plastic tipped in your.308 in which case,these, zeroed at 125 yds, will give you a + or - 1.5 inch trajectory up to around 175 yards. Plenty adequate for deer and fox, so basically you have a point and shoot rifle for foxing up to ranges of 175 yards.

 

Using the same load for all quarry will save zeroing problems and I can assure you that if you use a hunting ballistic tip, something like a Nosler 150gr, neither the deer nor the fox will complain.

[deershooter]

Personally, I would stick with the.308 and buy a moderator.

I presume you're using something like 150gr partitions or plastic tipped in your.308 in which case,these, zeroed at 125 yds, will give you a + or - 1.5 inch trajectory up to around 175 yards. Plenty adequate for deer and fox, so basically you have a point and shoot rifle for foxing up to ranges of 175 yards.

 

Using the same load for all quarry will save zeroing problems and I can assure you that if you use a hunting ballistic tip, something like a Nosler 150gr, neither the deer nor the fox will complain.

+1 this is what I have done for years I do have a .223 but some times I just take the 308 never found a moderator some thing I need often shot two deer with no problem

 

Deershooter

[Dougy]

Your Deer land recommendations are that you use 308, so you ain't going to be persuaded to go 243. I looked at quite a few mods at the show last weekend there's some pretty light ones around which would be a benefit on a lighter stalking rifle. But I doubt they going to stand up to some of the heavier all steel construction, just my opinion. I have 3 different cf mods all I'm happy with, 1 original S5 Utra, 1 Sonic (light weight) alloy don't expect it last as long but won't get the amount of use as the S5 and a JetZ compact on a 30.06 very happy with all

edit;- as above I use 150 SSTs they group fantastic in mine and do an excellent job on anything they hit.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Dougy

[welshwarrior]

I've used a 308 on foxes for years I used my normal stalking load so no change of zero issue.

 

Personally I like a mod on all my rifles with bad hearing an reduces muzzle flip I recently used a friend mod from Riflecraft very light and efficient I'm buy one for my next mod. Currently use a t8

[jonnys]

Hi all

 

Thanks very much for the advice so far, you're basically all saying what I hoped. Which is that I can easily use a 308 for a while until I get a 243 without any issues. I just feel that for £250 on the mod I've got a cracking set up, whereas to go out and get a 243 fully equiped up will cost me about a £1000 and I'll still need a mod for the 308 anyway. Appreciate that the 308 isn't a fox rifle, and a 243 or 22-250 would be better, but I'm an absolute beginner at foxing and from what you're saying the 308 will get me going. I also need to buy a new shotgun as I've recently started driven and only have a Berretta A400 semi atm - so the money i save will get put towards that an o/u Silver Pigeon. It's an expensive business this shooting! lol!

 

Dougy - the land I shoot for deer i can use either a 308 or 243.

 

I've ordered some Hornady 110 grain rounds from my dealer (not sure exactly which type as this is all very new to me), I will only be shooting fox and munctac with those (long story but I can't shoot the reds or roe on ther yet) so this should have me set up nicely without the need to re-zero all the time.

 

Thanks again folks.

[kent]

I also am not a compulsive moderator user for deer, though foxing and night use tends to attract more attention if heard by the locals at 2am (more so if deer poaching is known to occur). There are only two considerations using heavily constructed deer bullets foxing 1. they can pencil through the ribs failing to expand (same happens in the 6mm with many such bullets) fox generally drops to the shot then gets up and legs it, chances are it lies stone dead no more than 100 yards away but it leaves some doubt and a carcass to be found by a walker etc perhaps? This can be overcome by brain shots though this is a lot smaller more mobile target. 2. Ricochet, once you have had a flukey bouncer come off the intended backstop and head a bad direction I can tell you it gives you a very cold feeling. Shooting at night especially I far prefer something more frangible and high speed, the shots I take will still be assessed just the same as if shooting a heavy bullet but it certainly helps reduce the incidence, building in some spare backup. Having personally had a 140 grn bullet do what nobody might reasonably expect it to do that day opened my eyes. Fired a lot of similar rounds in the field before that occurrence without incidence and I just got very unlucky that day yet at the same time lucky that nobody or nothing was damaged. 55 grn at near 4000 fps and that bullet would not have done what it did!

[rtaylor]

Again +1 on sticking with one rifle, one round. Which ever round you go for in .308 will certainly kill a fox as well as it will kill a deer so I would just use the round you are using.

 

In terms of a moderator. I bought a second hand Wildcat Predator 8 a couple of years ago. It hadn't been used much and being all stainless there was little chance of it being damaged. I would have a look at some strippable second hand ones, you can then take it apart and have a look at the condition of the internals. I paid £110 (+ £50 to get it screwcut) for mine so quite a bit cheaper than new price.

[The Essex Hunter]

Only having a .243 but with mates who have .308's I have shot Red Stag, Fallow out at a very long way and a lot of foxes with my .243.

I've had a 75gn rounds slip through the ribs of a fox and leave a small hole on the exit...

I would like a .308 but cant see it would get much use with the shooting I do...much the same if I brought a second shot gun.

 

TEH

[Dekers]

Hi all

 

Thanks very much for the advice so far, you're basically all saying what I hoped. Which is that I can easily use a 308 for a while until I get a 243 without any issues. I just feel that for £250 on the mod I've got a cracking set up, whereas to go out and get a 243 fully equiped up will cost me about a £1000 and I'll still need a mod for the 308 anyway. Appreciate that the 308 isn't a fox rifle, and a 243 or 22-250 would be better, but I'm an absolute beginner at foxing and from what you're saying the 308 will get me going. I also need to buy a new shotgun as I've recently started driven and only have a Berretta A400 semi atm - so the money i save will get put towards that an o/u Silver Pigeon. It's an expensive business this shooting! lol!

 

Dougy - the land I shoot for deer i can use either a 308 or 243.

 

I've ordered some Hornady 110 grain rounds from my dealer (not sure exactly which type as this is all very new to me), I will only be shooting fox and munctac with those (long story but I can't shoot the reds or roe on ther yet) so this should have me set up nicely without the need to re-zero all the time.

 

Thanks again folks.

 

No reason why not to use the .308 for fox, and if you can find a lighter load that works you will also find it very likely kicks you less, so that will help with another issue you mention, as should a mod.

 

I have .223 and .243 as well as .308 and I genuinely don't think I have ever taken my .308 out on a fox job, but one or two foxes have fallen to my .308 as a bonus when after other quarry!

 

My .308 is a Rem700SPS and is a pussycat to shoot with 150g SP, it is amazing the difference in feel of many .308!

[Mpw222]

All good points and I guess we all have our own preferences !

I always prefer a .243 with 75 grn ballistic for fox and 100 grn soft for deer but I must add I only ever neck shoot deer, the strange thing is that I use two different makes and two different weights and yet I do not need to adjust scope at all !!!! Crazy

[kent]

Only having a .243 but with mates who have .308's I have shot Red Stag, Fallow out at a very long way and a lot of foxes with my .243.

I've had a 75gn rounds slip through the ribs of a fox and leave a small hole on the exit...

I would like a .308 but cant see it would get much use with the shooting I do...much the same if I brought a second shot gun.

 

TEH

 

To be fair, if you used 150 grain deer bullets you would expect pencilling, just like you should if you used a fast fragile varmint bullet on a stag in the boiler room you should expect premature expansion and a lot of bloodshot venison. Terminal ballistics don't come with 100% guarantee just an expectation. Personally I have never had a single varmint round pencil on a fox but it might happen one day

[Dekers]

Only having a .243 but with mates who have .308's I have shot Red Stag, Fallow out at a very long way and a lot of foxes with my .243.

I've had a 75gn rounds slip through the ribs of a fox and leave a small hole on the exit...

I would like a .308 but cant see it would get much use with the shooting I do...much the same if I brought a second shot gun.

 

TEH

 

Must have been about the time of the Deer Act Amendment I took a Muntjac down with a .223 55g HP, quite close, about 70 yards I seem to remember, and try as I might I could not find the entry or exit until he was skinned!

 

It happens sometimes, both were very small!

Edited February 19, 2014 by Dekers

[Gimlet]

I used to use my .308 for foxes all the time before I got a .222 as a fox/rabbit rifle. It works just fine. My .308 is zeroed an inch high at 100 yards and as Charlie says that puts a 150 grn bullet into a 4" kill zone at 200 yds, which will account for the vast majority of foxes shot at night. I discovered by chance after a day using up surplus ammo at the range that Sako 123 grn SPs require no change of zero from my Hornady Interbond homeloads. They just shoot 2" higher at 200 yrds which is easy to hold under or dial out. They make an excellent fox round. (I stopped using them for deer because they caused too much haemorrhaging). Kent has a point about pencilling. I've had runners from 150 grn HPs, though to be fair you'd hardly expect it to be the norm when a fox takes a 30 cal clout. But if you plan to take the .308 on dedicated foxing trips then it might pay to find a lighter faster more destructive round (like the Sakos that suit my rifle) which you can use with minimal re-zeroing. 100 grn is very light in and not all rifles will like them. Try something 120 -130 grn.

 

As for recoil I think the answer is to get used to the rifle. A .308 isn't so bad really. I don't like mods on my stalking rifle but my choice if I did would be something light. Heavy mods soak up recoil but IMO they spoil a rifle's handling an make them a nuisance to carry around. A mate has an ASE Utra. Its efficient, lightweight and well priced.

[Dekers]

I used to use my .308 for foxes all the time before I got a .222 as a fox/rabbit rifle. It works just fine. My .308 is zeroed an inch high at 100 yards and as Charlie says that puts a 150 grn bullet into a 4" kill zone at 200 yds, which will account for the vast majority of foxes shot at night. I discovered by chance after a day using up surplus ammo at the range that Sako 123 grn SPs require no change of zero from my Hornady Interbond homeloads. They just shoot 2" higher at 200 yrds which is easy to hold under or dial out. They make an excellent fox round. (I stopped using them for deer because they caused too much haemorrhaging). Kent has a point about pencilling. I've had runners from 150 grn HPs, though to be fair you'd hardly expect it to be the norm when a fox takes a 30 cal clout. But if you plan to take the .308 on dedicated foxing trips then it might pay to find a lighter faster more destructive round (like the Sakos that suit my rifle) which you can use with minimal re-zeroing. 100 grn is very light in and not all rifles will like them. Try something 120 -130 grn.

 

As for recoil I think the answer is to get used to the rifle. A .308 isn't so bad really. I don't like mods on my stalking rifle but my choice if I did would be something light. Heavy mods soak up recoil but IMO they spoil a rifle's handling an make them a nuisance to carry around. A mate has an ASE Utra. Its efficient, lightweight and well priced.

 

...or consideration of the rifle itself, there can be a big difference in shoulder feel on many rifles.

 

My .308 Rem 700SPS is standard and light and genuinely is a pussy cat to shoot, one of my shooting buddies had a CZ .308 a few years back, it was painful to shoot in comparison using the same ammo side by side, his quickly went when he tried mine!

 

ATB!

[Gimlet]

 

...or consideration of the rifle itself, there can be a big difference in shoulder feel on many rifles.

 

My .308 Rem 700SPS is standard and light and genuinely is a pussy cat to shoot, one of my shooting buddies had a CZ .308 a few years back, it was painful to shoot in comparison using the same ammo side by side, his quickly went when he tried mine!

 

ATB!

 

Absolutely agree. My old Parker Hale was a lively thing, even before it was shot out and throat eroded. But the Tikka 595 I've got now is a joy, yet its no heavier. Gun fit possibly?

[kent]

its very true however that even experienced shooters shoot better with a lighter recoiling round once you get into the varied stances as used in the field. Lighter bullets push less and lighter bullets through a heavy gun even more so, shot from an ideal stance there is nothing in it but we don't always get that ideal in the field.

 

BTW 4" is way bigger than a CCB humane shot on a fox requires

Absolutely agree. My old Parker Hale was a lively thing, even before it was shot out and throat eroded. But the Tikka 595 I've got now is a joy, yet its no heavier. Gun fit possibly?

Likely shape, a straighter flatter recoil line through the gun

[deershooter]

Hi all

 

Thanks very much for the advice so far, you're basically all saying what I hoped. Which is that I can easily use a 308 for a while until I get a 243 without any issues. I just feel that for £250 on the mod I've got a cracking set up, whereas to go out and get a 243 fully equiped up will cost me about a £1000 and I'll still need a mod for the 308 anyway. Appreciate that the 308 isn't a fox rifle, and a 243 or 22-250 would be better, but I'm an absolute beginner at foxing and from what you're saying the 308 will get me going. I also need to buy a new shotgun as I've recently started driven and only have a Berretta A400 semi atm - so the money i save will get put towards that an o/u Silver Pigeon. It's an expensive business this shooting! lol!

 

Dougy - the land I shoot for deer i can use either a 308 or 243.

 

I've ordered some Hornady 110 grain rounds from my dealer (not sure exactly which type as this is all very new to me), I will only be shooting fox and munctac with those (long story but I can't shoot the reds or roe on ther yet) so this should have me set up nicely without the need to re-zero all the time.

 

Thanks again folks.

Don't change the bullets just use 150 grain for everything you will forget which are which if they look the same like ballistic tip do zero for 1.5 inches high @ 125 yards you can then take a chest shot right out to 220 with no holdover

 

Deershooter

[kent]

Most commonly a full stacked 150 grn from a .308 zeroed at 100 yards is 3 MOA low at 300 yards or 9" under the point of aim. Minute of fox is perhaps 2 1/2" cold clean bore, now a .243 win with say an 85 grn (about the heaviest and slowest true varmint round)at around 3200 fps is flatter yet zeroed at 220yards I am still 1.4" high at 100 yards and 2.1" low only 30 yards further on than my zero at 220 ( ie 220-250 drop is your full kill zone). At 300 yards I am just shy of 6" low.

The point of this is don't get cocky with ranges the fox isn't as big as it seems without it jacket on and have a precise trajectory in your mind and a proper precise set zero never guestimate and know your windages which can require even greater degree of compensation

[Harnser]

God you dont half get some old tosh on here . Keep to your .308 . Its good for every thing ,foxes and all deer . I have used one for years on all game and live stock when it has been necessary . I have a ruger m77 .308 that will shoot MOA at 100 yards .

I load all my own ammo ,45 grains of vit 140 with a 150 grain soft point bullet never ever let me down from foxes to red stags . Own a .308 and you dont need any othe calibre .

 

Harnser.

[welshwarrior]

God you dont half get some old tosh on here . Keep to your .308 . Its good for every thing ,foxes and all deer . I have used one for years on all game and live stock when it has been necessary . I have a ruger m77 .308 that will shoot MOA at 100 yards .

I load all my own ammo ,45 grains of vit 140 with a 150 grain soft point bullet never ever let me down from foxes to red stags . Own a .308 and you dont need any othe calibre .

 

Harnser.

If could only have 2 gun a 308 and a 12 bore, that will sort 99.9% of thing in the world.

[kent]

God you dont half get some old tosh on here . Keep to your .308 . Its good for every thing ,foxes and all deer . I have used one for years on all game and live stock when it has been necessary . I have a ruger m77 .308 that will shoot MOA at 100 yards .

I load all my own ammo ,45 grains of vit 140 with a 150 grain soft point bullet never ever let me down from foxes to red stags . Own a .308 and you dont need any othe calibre .

 

Harnser.

 

You can use anything on anything if its legal and you ticket allows for it (not always are the two linked). After that point it is personal based on the users preferences (the balancing act of compromise). Tosh? that shows many qualities in a person but no answers. A local keeper is having to use a .300 WM at present while his .22-250 is unwell (can we see the compromise?)

[Dekers]

God you dont half get some old tosh on here . Keep to your .308 . Its good for every thing ,foxes and all deer . I have used one for years on all game and live stock when it has been necessary . I have a ruger m77 .308 that will shoot MOA at 100 yards .

I load all my own ammo ,45 grains of vit 140 with a 150 grain soft point bullet never ever let me down from foxes to red stags . Own a .308 and you dont need any othe calibre .

 

Harnser.

 

Perhaps a little more than I would normally use for squirrel and rabbit!

[kent]

Perhaps a little more than I would normally use for squirrel and rabbit!

Hey it will kill them! What about those back garden foxes in the middle of a housing estate? you see individual needs and compomises