hoggysreels Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Got to say lm liking it the more l use it, very impressed ... lve read the alleged bad press that has appeared on PW ... regards 12 bore, ld happily go over completely if availability was equal to lead ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 What did you use - and on what? Clays, pigeons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Bought a box of 32g No4 Steel a while back, basically forgot l had them untill l stumbled across them this afternoon ... had an hour or so out. .. just a slow stroll, nothing serious ... took an overhead Pigeon and a Magpie, both at distance, especially the Magpie. It had clocked me and was well on its way as l cocked the hammer to full ... both birds hit "hard" .. no flappers .. as l said, it was only a leg stretching hour out on the farm. Will be back a few times this week for a more serious effort. Noticed plenty of Partridge about and the odd Pheasant. Nice seeing that after the season ends. Lots of Magpie though and paired off Carrion Crow .. The steel shot seem to do all what lead does, lve no complaint. And it doesn't leave fields lead strewn. I'm not one to go into analysis, l prefer to "shoot" ... all l know is, it hits hard and kills at range ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'd be willing to try them too - if I could find them easily. What make were they? I'm perplexed as to why Steel can cost more than lead cartridges. Supposedly the increase in the price in cartridges is due to the high price of lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'd be willing to try them too - if I could find them easily. What make were they? I'm perplexed as to why Steel can cost more than lead cartridges. Supposedly the increase in the price in cartridges is due to the high price of lead? Not as much demand for steel cartridges so they cost more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 ive used eley lighning steel 5,s this season on flight ponds with ex results, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Ones l found this afternoon are Gamebore .. get the point about base metal costs etc .. no private business is ever going to charge less if they can get away with it ... cartridges manufacturers are like cartels ... they all walk in the same footprint. Its a competition free business in all but principle. Their pricing strategy is far to comfortable imho ... Indian/Chinese companies enter fully into the market, and l guess we would see pricing strategy alter like we had never seen before ... If large sales induces cheaper per unit costs, then the pricing would reflect this amongst present day cartridge manufacturers, far greater than it does presently .. unless they are all making a very similar amount of similar cartridges over a similar time period .. though they all seem to have a similar pricing strategy ... I think their strategy is based on " A fool and his money, are easily parted" ... lm one of the fools ... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 2 3\4 inch steel shells should be the same as mid range lead shells. In my local gunshop gamebore 32 gr loads are £5.50 for 25. Lead varies from £ 4.50 to £7.10. Beware there some poor stell shells out there , but you will not go far wrong with Feocch , Rio or Gamebore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) As mentioned only found a box "not full" .. today l used Gamebore 4's 32g steel .. Gamebore 6's 30g & Proper Cartridges 5's 32g... l prefer the steel l think ... May shop round and pick up some No1's .. No3's .. No5's in steel ... sort me out for spring/summer and a few boxes 1's & 3's for late Autumn/Winter ... see whats available in 2 3/4"& 3" I can uses singles with the 2 3/4" steel. Edited March 2, 2014 by hoggysreels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I have a mate that only ever uses 32gm Gamebore steel on everything and I am slowly going that way to , they are cheaper than most 32gm lead and we find that they shoot just as well. Has to be Gamebore IMO have tried others but these work best for us I ran out of them and was given some Hull Solway could not hit a barn door with them, when I told my mate who had given them to me he said funny that nor could he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Steel has come on leaps and bounds now manufactures have twigged its not lead and you actually need to develop loads with new powders and more specialised wads . My real awakening to steel inland came one evening shooting crows with what I thought were lead no 5's, anyhow they had the same blue cases when I grabbed them. Turned out they were steel number 5 I had bought to try sometime for small duck and waders. Anyhow I shot really well and was thinking how superior to the steel I had been using over the last weeks on the duck these "lead" shells were doing as regards dead in the air kills- BIG SHOCK WHEN I PICKED UP THE EMPTIES! A little later I took a few out to test on rabbits and set my longest ever clean kill with one shell ( I think the high shot count to weight was an advantage in getting those vital pellets into vital places at extended range) I fully accept that lead kills birds further than lead but I aint so sure about rabbits were pellets need to get into the right areas rather than land with greater penetrating energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 With regard to the demand for steel dictating the price - I suspect that if they lower the price, the demand will go up significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 With regard to the demand for steel dictating the price - I suspect that if they lower the price, the demand will go up significantly. Unfortunately it takes one manufacturer to go for it and lower the cost of their own quality steel shell and demand will I predict rise for them a lot once word gets out, the others must then play catch up and reduce their prices. Economies of scale come into it though, few use steel away from the saltmarsh and flight pond (annual use per shooter in these situations might not reach daily use by a pigeon or clay lad) and the issues of non compliance have been well discussed. So sort out full compliance, using non toxic voluntarily over lead were allowed (clay and Pigeon markets) and effectively boost the market (up to us) Then sort a single manufacturer to do the deed of price reduction "undercutting" over their competitors prices rather than capitalise on what we the customer will by existing proof pay (up to them) and we will have cheaper shells. Not as straight forwards as it seems and with powder and rifle ammo and component prices remaining at their peak "shortage" premium prices in the shops demonstrates the price fixing Cartel attitude of the trade. Add in the steel doubter threads on here and what are we left with chances wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 the only incentive of using steel is £. full stop. a chap here uses steel 28g#7 on pigeon and gets on really well, i dont applaud the uses at the distances he claims with such "tiny" shot. i`ve friends who have only ever used steel and refuse to use lead (because it is dangerous??) no manufacturers would cut prices. infact due to the increase in lead costs steel shells constantly go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 all the shell manufacturers stick together and refuse to release a 28gram #6 shell at clay shooting prices. it will affect there game shooting shells. thats the crazyness of it all 29 grams, 31 grams, 33grams, 35 grams as apposed to the "classics" they are trying to re-invent the cartridge when it is low tech. no-one can feel the difference between the 31gram and 30 gram. not only that the reductions are virtually neglegable. for a homeloader that saves £4 per 1000. the cartridge companys buy in such bulk that its neglegable. it probly only saves them £1 / k at most? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 the only incentive of using steel is £. full stop. a chap here uses steel 28g#7 on pigeon and gets on really well, i dont applaud the uses at the distances he claims with such "tiny" shot. i`ve friends who have only ever used steel and refuse to use lead (because it is dangerous??) no manufacturers would cut prices. infact due to the increase in lead costs steel shells constantly go up. I cant agree with your first statement on three grounds 1. because using steel inland out of the same gun you might use for the marsh is bound to improve you shooting 2. Compliance dictates non toxic at times. 3.Steel also has certain ballistic advantages over lead (although it also has dis-advantages) Pretty sure I am seeing your statement out of the context it was intended but just to clarify I do think you have to try something before you critic another using it, I know one guy who only uses a steel clay load on the marsh and though I cannot recommend it it works very well for him under his parameters of what is to him a take able shot. I shouldn't like to comment on shooting large amounts of woodies at range with light small steel loads because I don't have any pigeon shooting to test the loads on. I assume if it didn't work he might abandon it very quickly though............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesketh Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 the only incentive of using steel is £. full stop. I have just got off the phone to the local chap we use, and asked if he had any steel loads in. As looking at the just cartages price list there is a helpful drop in price and as they would only be used on clays would it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 There are so many cartridge manufacturers. Is competition really not working? I find it hard to believe there is any sort of organised cartel - maybe a de-facto cartel whereby everyone follows each others prices, but we also have imports (notably from Italy). I'm surprised we don't have more imports from countries further afield like China, or Turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I have just got off the phone to the local chap we use, and asked if he had any steel loads in. As looking at the just cartages price list there is a helpful drop in price and as they would only be used on clays would it matter? depends on what you can live with i suppose. steel shot in a 7 has been used by pigeon shooters for a while. its for the meat afterwards. take gamebore steel 7s /1oz. £160 / k compared to the £220 pigeon shell and the £190 for the 7.5 shot lead /1oz. big difference. i recolect the days when steel shot was dirt cheap. £88 per 1000 shells. those were one ouncers too. i had bad clay strikes at range but the skeet shells were awesome. i noticed the speed dropped right off at range. @ kent, just because its nontoxic for wildfowl, doent mean i should change over to shooting clays with steel. steel has no ballistic advantage over lead. the only advantage it has is maybe shotcount. but that has to be naturally adjusted to go up /3 shotsizes. quite frankly i dont care for those who use clay shells for shooting game. i even went out of my way to design a 24gram steel #4 shell (english) #5 (usa) at 1450fps, because the steel shells in this country are PANTS. i have tried steel, thats what really got me into loading. i can still see the old lylevale shells crawling out the barrel. when i tried them. they were comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Actually like you hint at short shot strings and open chokes are very good for skeet, the shot count is handy and the speed over short range. Ballistic advantages mean more than retained energy. My thoughts to pigeon (and they are just thoughts) are a greater chance of head and neck strikes due to that short string and higher shot count per weight, it seems to work that way for my guy with duck on steel clay loads (he get little breast damage but plenty strikes to the head neck) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 It had clocked me and was well on its way as l cocked the hammer to full ... You use a hammer gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Semi hammer gun.. half cocks on loading .. just needs fully cocking prior to firing .. can have it fully cocked, just the semi cocked position is that bit safer .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Was shooting this afternoon ...quite were hundreds upon hundreds of pigeon go has me baffled .... and the crows are getting smarter ... lm even alternating my clothing in an attempt to reduce familiarity with the guy that keeps shooting at them ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Semi hammer gun.. half cocks on loading .. just needs fully cocking prior to firing .. can have it fully cocked, just the semi cocked position is that bit safer .. Is it steel proofed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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