Tim Kelly Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 When I first got it I put it on him quite a lot without it being turned on. He doesn't have any negative feelings towards it at all, in fact when we get to the shoot if I get the collar out he makes a point of coming directly to me and sitting down waiting for it to be put on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I had that with mine when she needed it Tim she loved it going on as it meant a shoot day. Even though I only used it a handful of times hares and muntjac were too tempting at one point. I'vea mate with a similar dog to yours and a few trainers have said the only way is to beat it out of the dog and be on top of it every minute and they are actually probably right. It works for itself unless he stays right on top of it most of us won't do that and the collar is a kinder method and keeps your dog from either a life on a lead all the time or from harm from road accidents etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Yep. It's a solution to my earlier failings, but he's an absolutely fantastic dog in most other ways. Keeps me highly amused and is the most fantastic fishing dog I've ever seen. Absolutely obsessed by fishing and spend a whole day sitting, balanced on the edge wagging his tail furiously watching the end of the line back to me on each retrieve. When I'm fishing a canal people are always laughing at him, photographing him etc. They broke the mould with him all right. Strangely, he sits in a pigeon hide all day without fuss or escapology sits on a peg fairly well as well, something my old dog couldn't do. The old one was constantly trying to creep through the net to be just that bit closer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Yep. It's a solution to my earlier failings, but he's an absolutely fantastic dog in most other ways. Keeps me highly amused and is the most fantastic fishing dog I've ever seen. Absolutely obsessed by fishing and spend a whole day sitting, balanced on the edge wagging his tail furiously watching the end of the line back to me on each retrieve. When I'm fishing a canal people are always laughing at him, photographing him etc. They broke the mould with him all right. Strangely, he sits in a pigeon hide all day without fuss or escapology sits on a peg fairly well as well, something my old dog couldn't do. The old one was constantly trying to creep through the net to be just that bit closer... Did you hear the tale of Gordie and his old dog Tosh? Lets just say an argument for fully barbless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 No, but can imagine. My div often has a quick grab at a lure as it swings by. Every time he gets hooked he freezes and waits for me to unhook him. Dumb, but not entirely stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Cant stand them and would never use one, had a chap beating on the shoot a few years ago who had one on his young dog, he walked one way, the dog walked the other so rather then call it he gave it a belt on the collar , I have never heard a dog yelp so loud before, when I got chance to have a word out of others earshot I told him if he ever did that again I would strap the collar around his balls and let him have a belt at full power, I do not recall him using it again. Just my opinion of course. cringe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) a few trainers have said the only way is to beat it out of the dog and be on top of it every minute and they are actually probably right. If this is the way you think then I am sorry but you probably shouldn't keep dogs. EDIT : And you should probably ask real trainers not cloth caps Edited March 11, 2014 by 955i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 If this is the way you think then I am sorry but you probably shouldn't keep dogs. EDIT : And you should probably ask real trainers not cloth caps I only think it's probably the only way to stay on top of a hot spaniel, didn't say I did or approved. From memory don't you have a sled dog you can't let off the lead............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I only think it's probably the only way to stay on top of a hot spaniel, didn't say I did or approved. From memory don't you have a sled dog you can't let off the lead............ One should maybe open their eyes and ears more? hundreds of spaniel lads have trained hundreds of hot dogs without them. Collars are a tool for a very limited job and I am sure we will loose them from the ignorance of many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 There are many ways to train dogs ( depending on the dog) . Some dogs do need to have a certain amount of fear installed in them and some already have in them . I have man handled dogs when needed as have every trainer I know. But it's when people loose their temper and lash out at a dog through their own frustrations that I think it becomes cruel . The electric collar is a good training aid when it's needed but like most I would try everything I know before using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 One should maybe open their eyes and ears more? hundreds of spaniel lads have trained hundreds of hot dogs without them. Collars are a tool for a very limited job and I am sure we will loose them from the ignorance of many Read again a collar was never mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Read again a collar was never mentioned. The title is a bit of a lead, what you saying then? Please enlighten us by filling in the blanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I only think it's probably the only way to stay on top of a hot spaniel, didn't say I did or approved. From memory don't you have a sled dog you can't let off the lead............ No, I don't. I have a dog that is fine off the lead thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I only think it's probably the only way to stay on top of a hot spaniel, didn't say I did or approved. From memory don't you have a sled dog you can't let off the lead............ Not really al4x, the way to train a hot spaniel is not to let the bad habits develop and keep it focused on you and hunting for you. Easiest dogs to train I have had are ch x ch. But I have used a collar on one particularly hard headed spaniel who would chase anything. It remains a horrible dog to work, completely self obsessed and looking only to please itself at the first opportunity. The collar made it workable, and I'm sorry but for all the "train with love" brigade, until you've had a hell raising, hard headed dog you have no idea what you can be up against. The collar is a tool which provides instant correction, used correctly they can turn a dog around; very few dogs need it if trained properly but for the one exceptional dog that needs it, it is an invaluable tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Not really al4x, the way to train a hot spaniel is not to let the bad habits develop and keep it focused on you and hunting for you. Easiest dogs to train I have had are ch x ch. But I have used a collar on one particularly hard headed spaniel who would chase anything. It remains a horrible dog to work, completely self obsessed and looking only to please itself at the first opportunity. The collar made it workable, and I'm sorry but for all the "train with love" brigade, until you've had a hell raising, hard headed dog you have no idea what you can be up against. The collar is a tool which provides instant correction, used correctly they can turn a dog around; very few dogs need it if trained properly but for the one exceptional dog that needs it, it is an invaluable tool. Well said, my thoughts are such dogs will just be killed if the collar is lost to us. The debate might well be is that a bad thing when some people later go on to breed from such trained dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 The debate might well be is that a bad thing when some people later go on to breed from such trained dogs Now that's a fair point, we try to breed for hard hunting yet biddable dogs. The dog referred to is one of the hardest hunting I have or have had some of the finds picking up have been exceptional. Many people have asked if I will breed from her, I won't but not for that reason (she fits intermittently and I don't know what causes it but won't take the risk of passing on something genetic). If I was less scrupulous and bred with a hard going dog I would be selling the same again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just out of curiosity, anyone know how people deal with hard headed dogs in Wales, where e collars are banned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just out of curiosity, anyone know how people deal with hard headed dogs in Wales, where e collars are banned? Move them on, most are ok pets as obedience levels are good on a pet scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Just out of curiosity, anyone know how people deal with hard headed dogs in Wales, where e collars are banned? Drive into England perhaps? Not as crazy as it sounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Move them on, most are ok pets as obedience levels are good on a pet scale. Once sterilised IMO, if an experienced and capable trainer needs one then I do not see them as breeding stock. We owe the dogs of now to the breeders of yesteryear, we should therefore pass on better to the future generations. With the potential of 5k in a litter its too tempting to breed rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 In Wales I guess they'd use the BEEP function instead, both methods work. I also used a collar that sprayed a small amount of citronella scented water, but that wasn't very effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 In Wales I guess they'd use the BEEP function instead, both methods work. I also used a collar that sprayed a small amount of citronella scented water, but that wasn't very effective. These are totally different to a e-collar. I seriously doubt you could persuade a block head sheep killer that sheep shouldn't be tangled with because they beep and squirt scented stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Drive into England perhaps? Not as crazy as it sounds Not at all crazy, English borders are actually closer to us than south Wales. Pretty good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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