Is there a minimum bullet seating depth??

[jam1e]

Hi folks,

I'm after some more constructive advice, but this time it's regarding specific "minimum" bullet depth rules. If there is such a thing?

I'm made up some .223R rounds using my IMR 8208 and intend on using my (Now discontinued) box of Nosler 45 grain soft points.

I've finally got round to making the rounds up, and I'm at the point of seating the bullets.

I wanted to have an overall length to the ogive of 1.910". This would give me a "safe" starting distance away from the lands. However, when I tried to seat them at this depth, the bullet only seats to around 2/3's down in the neck. Although, as the bullets have a slight boat tail, in reality there is a little less contact with the inside of the neck.

Due to this, I'm also having problems with concentricity.

I intend to seat the bullets deeper, and rotate the brass at half depth seating, which should sort the concentricity...

However, my question is, Is there a minimum depth a bullet should be seated, by percentage or length?

And/or, is there a formular that I should be following to give me my minimum seating depth?

Thanks

Jamie

[njc110381]

I Like to try to seat my bullets to at least the same depth as their width. I'm sure I read that it was best that way somewhere, but christ knows where!

[jam1e]

I Like to try to seat my bullets to at least the same depth as their width. I'm sure I read that it was best that way somewhere, but christ knows where!

That does sound familiar to, to be honest. But I can't be sure either!

[pestcontrol1]

2/3rds down thats plenty should be enough neck tension to hold bullet at that

my 204 is alot less and shoots great

[wymberley]

That does sound familiar to, to be honest. But I can't be sure either!

Did you read the Hornady Hornet 45gn thread?

 

The Hodgdon reloading data site gives a minimum COL of 2.220" for your calibre, powder and a 45gn bullet. Have to say that this is the first time I've seen this new site, think I prefer the old one as it gave different bullet types.

 

It's not a good idea to seat the bullet in two stages as you can end up with a coke bottle or hourglass effect with the bullet then pivoting about the 'waist' area.

 

Edit: PS had another look - the new design fooled me - and found the Hodgdon info was good for the Sierra 45gn SP which may well be very close to the Nosler that you have. The Sierra bullet - #1310 - OAL is 0.630".

Edited April 6, 2014 by wymberley

[jam1e]

Did you read the Hornady Hornet 45gn thread?

 

The Hodgdon reloading data site gives a minimum COL of 2.220" for your calibre, powder and a 45gn bullet. Have to say that this is the first time I've seen this new site, think I prefer the old one as it gave different bullet types.

 

It's not a good idea to seat the bullet in two stages as you can end up with a coke bottle or hourglass effect with the bullet then pivoting about the 'waist' area.

 

Edit: PS had another look - the new design fooled me - and found the Hodgdon info was good for the Sierra 45gn SP which may well be very close to the Nosler that you have. The Sierra bullet - #1310 - OAL is 0.630".

Thanks for the reply Wymberley.

Apologies for sounding dim, but could you explain what you mean by "coke bottle or hourglass effect with the bullet then pivoting about the 'waist' "area. I presume it's something to do with the shape of the neck?

Not sure what you mean by OAL being 0.630"?

Thanks

Jamie

[Bewsher500]

I always start with "at least a calibre depth"

 

very few calibre/bullet weight combinations that don't allow for that

[wymberley]

Thanks for the reply Wymberley.

Apologies for sounding dim, but could you explain what you mean by "coke bottle or hourglass effect with the bullet then pivoting about the 'waist' "area. I presume it's something to do with the shape of the neck?

Not sure what you mean by OAL being 0.630"?

Thanks

Jamie

If you half seat the bullet which, say, is cocked to the left and then rotate the brass and complete the seating, the bullet may then cock to the right. If you hold a pencil in the middle and rotate it on way and then the other, you'll see what I mean - where you're holding it will be the narrow 'waist'. You've gone to the trouble of re-sizing the neck which you've now just distorted.

 

OAL is over all length. Nosler made 2 (highly regarded apparently) solid base SP bullets. One was specifically for the Hornet which was 0.562" OAL and the other for which I have no size I suspect might be yours unless previously you have shot Hornet.

[kent]

I wont go further out than a calibre depth in the case. There is no point and its counter productive, by the fact that rounds get knocked off centre etc. Jump length is of little to no relevance in a factory chambered gun with hunting / varmint bullets which are designed to be very jump tolerant.

[jam1e]

Wymberley, I appreciate oal is overall length, It was the 0.630" I didn't understand, but I now understand you meant bullet length.

According to my vernier, my bullets are 0.567"

I'll go with the common idea of, "At least the calibre deep".

Thanks for all the replies folks.

Cheers.

Jamie

[Dougy]

You say your having issues with concentricity, what are you measuring it with, and how much out are the rounds if you out by that much you can see with just your naked eye then i would have thought there are other issues like dies or shell holder.

If its out by only a little 0.005 i wouldnt worry, from the bullets your loading its not a target load. Full length the whole neck as well not just partially.

[wymberley]

Wymberley, I appreciate oal is overall length, It was the 0.630" I didn't understand, but I now understand you meant bullet length.

According to my vernier, my bullets are 0.567"

I'll go with the common idea of, "At least the calibre deep".

Thanks for all the replies folks.

Cheers.

Jamie

That's your best bet. Must agree with Dougy above; it sounds as though you've come across the dumpy Hornet round

[wymberley]

As you're stuffing this in a 223 instead of the Hornet, knowing that the BC for this is 0.144 may just be of some interest.

[jam1e]

Thanks both.

Dougy, I don't usually have problems with concentricity with my dies. I've "pulled" the few bullets that are seated badly. Re-neck sized the 2 brass cases, and seated the bullets at calibre depth, and they're now fine, regarding concentricity. I'm probably being too fussy. You couldn't see by the naked eye, but you could if you rolled the brass on a flat surface.

I neck size just a short of the whole neck, generally as I'm lead to believe leaving the last bit will "help keep the bullet straight".

I also agree the rounds are probably .22 Hornet rounds.

Cheers

Jamie

 

Edit - I've ended up with an average o.a.l of 2.100" and 1.844" to ogive. Need to check if that length is ok though....

If they're ok/safe to use, i'll post the groupings, which will be at 100 yards.

Edited April 8, 2014 by jam1e

[Amazed]

Jamie have a look at the hornady or forster seating dies they have a coller that hold the bullet in place all the way up the stroke.

 

I have made up some triple rounds with the same dumpy hornet bullets with no issues.

 

All the best

Karl.

[jam1e]

Jamie have a look at the hornady or forster seating dies they have a coller that hold the bullet in place all the way up the stroke.

 

I have made up some triple rounds with the same dumpy hornet bullets with no issues.

 

All the best

Karl.

Will do, cheers for the info.

Jamie

[jam1e]

That's your best bet. Must agree with Dougy above; it sounds as though you've come across the dumpy Hornet round

 

Well I shot 2 different loads of x4 rounds. I don't recall the loads, but it was towards the upper end of the scale.

Both shot at a distance of 100 yards on a calm day.

Both groups were around 3" in diameter, with the rounds spread all over.

So to date the results are ****!

Jamie

[wymberley]

 

Well I shot 2 different loads of x4 rounds. I don't recall the loads, but it was towards the upper end of the scale.

Both shot at a distance of 100 yards on a calm day.

Both groups were around 3" in diameter, with the rounds spread all over.

So to date the results are ****!

Jamie

No matter, at least now you know.

 

Just one point, keep a note of your loading spec's - it saves repeating your mistakes - I learned the hard way.

[jam1e]

No matter, at least now you know.

 

Just one point, keep a note of your loading spec's - it saves repeating your mistakes - I learned the hard way.

Couldn't agree more.... I always, right down all the details of a load and the come after testing.

I've had some good luck these last few days, both with .223R and Vit N135, and IMR 8208XBR and the stubby 45 grain Nosler solid base sp's.

I've already quoted the c.o.a.l and the length to ogive.

So just to add, it was .223R, Rem brass, fire formed, CCI BR4 primer and 26.5 grains of IMR 8208XBR. Produced a 4 shot group, measuring a .455" group from the widest centre to centre measurement.

The next, was the same as the above, but with 26.2 grains of XBR, and produced .575" 4 shot group.

 

But the most pleasing, was with my 55 V-Max, using 25.1 grains of Viht N135, and Federal Gold Medal primers. The rounds were 1.880" to the ogive. Same brass as above, again 4 shot groups. Best group was .301". Or if you count the flyer, then .437".

The next was again, the same as above, but with 25.4 grains of Viht N135, achieving a .319" group, but yet again, 1 flyer made it .807".

Bloody flyers!

Flyers aside, all in all, a lot more data for my book, gathered on a nice sunny afternoon out!

[wymberley]

Cooking on gas!