theredfox Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I would shot the dogs I love dogs but it the only way to stop people coming onto ground they should not be on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I would shot the dogs I love dogs but it the only way to stop people coming onto ground they should not be on Its the trespassers fault not the dogs so why would you shoot the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delburt0 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 No , I would never shoot a hare in the breeding season and what the keeper does not know will not hurt him !+1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I know he isn't a gamekeeper but was pointing out that some of us are and it's not just about the poaching it's about the other problems associated with it such as gates left open, damage, theft etc. If there isn't the quantity of hares to chase they will go elsewhere and I know they will poach other game but hares are a great attractant. As I have already said, hares also eat a lot of crops when they are high in numbers so it costs landowners money the same as when rabbits cause problems. I totally agree that if you have small numbers and doing no harm it is best to leave them alone and nobody likes to see them more than myself. If you don't want or like shooting hares that's up to the individual, but they are a legitimate quarry and if someone wants to shoot them why should it be a problem for others. I have very few pigeons where I am and no crops to protect so I don't shoot them but a huge majority on PW do. No difference really. I think its so easy to be blinkered by the area you live. to really mess up the viability of any creature you need to mess up its home and habbitat not shoot it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 There is no closed season for Hares but they are also classed as game, so am surprised your keeper wanted you to shoot it. Generally speaking, when you only have permission to shoot for crop protection, (Pigeons and Corvids) you run the risk of naturally upsetting any individual or group that may have the shooting rights over the land (for game) if you shoot hares. So you did the right thing by not shooting the Hare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) never been asked to shoot hares on any farms i shoot on or the ones I used to shoot on, but i did shoot a few out of choice not very often i will add, stopped shooting them about 20 years ago, there just isn,t enough of them on the ground nowadays on the farms we shoot even if there was good numbers i have no interest in shooting them Edited April 16, 2014 by yickdaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think its so easy to be blinkered by the area you live. to really mess up the viability of any creature you need to mess up its home and habbitat not shoot it I have worked and lived in many different parts of the country. If there isn't many hares I don't shoot them, if there are plenty I do shoot them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Whilst being a member of a game shoot in North Nottingham / South Yorkshire a few years ago there was plenty of Hares and they were part of the days bag. I have shot dozens. However when carrying out crop protection we would not dream of shooting a hare unless a farmer particularly requested us to do so and only then if he assured me that there was no shooting rights lease on the land or if there was, that he had the co-operation from the shooting leasee to do so. So be aware that shooting Hares could have the same repercussions as shooting any other game such as a pheasant. Which I'm sure we would all have sense not to do whilst carrying out specifically crop protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I would shot the dogs I love dogs but it the only way to stop people coming onto ground they should not be on You would lose your licence and probably some other things as well. No one has a right to shoot dogs unless worrying livestock, game isn't livestock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 NO. Your permission is for Pigeon and Vermin. pigeon and vermin etc Hare is Ground Game! The keeper may have shot it, but your permission does not allow you to regardless of the moral / conservation issues. I do like to see Hares and would only shoot them if they were becoming a problem, be it crop damage or dogmen. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Personal I don't shoot hares at all out of game season and only shoot on shoots where there are loads. I've had a similar comment before with about dog men, when the land owners with me he's commented a few times that I'm a terrible shoot on running hares always miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I have worked and lived in many different parts of the country. If there isn't many hares I don't shoot them, if there are plenty I do shoot them. That's a fair view, if the boss said shoot them as it encourages the wrong sort to visit us here? This might put you in the OP position. I do likewise to as you suggest normally but this might be the exception if it was made to me by the land owner and I have shot them on planting new hedging coz they love to bite off the growing bud. Never the less culling out the older ones that hold large areas of ground but produce few or any offspring does work to increase numbers long term, I should like to hear from those who managed Altcar during the days of the Waterloo cup on this matter non the less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Personal I don't shoot hares at all out of game season and only shoot on shoots where there are loads. I've had a similar comment before with about dog men, when the land owners with me he's commented a few times that I'm a terrible shoot on running hares always miss. don't fret it, some darn good dogs have been taken in by the speed variation and turns of Puss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 don't fret it, some darn good dogs have been taken in by the speed variation and turns of Puss Coursing was always better for the hare population, removing the weaker hares, stronger hares going on to breed. Shame on Labour for the ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Coursing was always better for the hare population, removing the weaker hares, stronger hares going on to breed. Shame on Labour for the ban. I never shot a hare when it was legal and I agree the coursing of the hare did lead to natural selection and removal of the old and sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Coursing was always better for the hare population, removing the weaker hares, stronger hares going on to breed. Shame on Labour for the ban. I never shot a hare when it was legal and I agree the coursing of the hare did lead to natural selection and removal of the old and sick. Nature is a wonderful thing and does a pretty good job of natural selection all by itself. But it is heartening to know that all the Hare coursers only selected the weak and feeble hares for their dogs to chase, and thus promoted healthy strong future Hare generations, or was it simply there dogs couldn't catch anything fit? I thought culling the sick/weak/old/unhealthy/injured/etc was considered a kindness and benefit for some animal species, makes it hard to understand why this thoroughly useful/beneficial pastime was banned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 don't fret it, some darn good dogs have been taken in by the speed variation and turns of Puss Don't often miss them on a game shoot mind!! But this time of year I'd normally be 6 to 10 feet behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Out of curiosity ... what terms are required for a bird/mammal to be classified as vermin ... ? Would the eradication of a species on a particular farm for the reason ... "its stops people and dogs" illegally trespassing whilst hunting for that species? Basically does requesting Hares to be hunted off the land to cease illegal hunting with dogs comply with the directive that the Hare was initially place on the Vermin list.... ? The reason l ask is out of curiosity and legal stance. Its one thing loosing a permission and another if it was breeching the law ... loosing the permission due to failure to comply to the landowners request or loosing your licence due to criminal activities .... there wouldn't be any cause for concern regards "permission loss" if ones licence is revoked .... lm not sure of the answer regards the question asked ... cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I don't believe there is a legal description for 'vermin' All animals in the UK are covered by the Wildlife and Countryside act of 1981 and appropriate amendments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Whilst being a member of a game shoot in North Nottingham / South Yorkshire a few years ago there was plenty of Hares and they were part of the days bag. I have shot dozens. However when carrying out crop protection we would not dream of shooting a hare unless a farmer particularly requested us to do so and only then if he assured me that there was no shooting rights lease on the land or if there was, that he had the co-operation from the shooting leasee to do so. So be aware that shooting Hares could have the same repercussions as shooting any other game such as a pheasant. Which I'm sure we would all have sense not to do whilst carrying out specifically crop protection. Read the 1880 Act. It isn't quite as you make out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Don't get confused you need no reason to shoot vermin, its birds (all birds are protected in law) the GL is just a licence to shoot them when good reasons exist and only the listed ones that year! Hares are unusual as they are classed as both game and vermin depending strangely on were they live Edited April 17, 2014 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Was wondering (probably wrongly) that there would be a reason .. public health, crop damage, invasive species etc ...that places a specific species onto the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Read the 1880 Act. It isn't quite as you make out. Thanks for pointing out to me that the land owner can force the issue and in the end has the authority over the shooting leasee as far as Hares are concerned. However I would still not like to upset the local shoot captain by shooting Hares. In my view it is essential that good relations are maintained. But you made a good legal point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Was wondering (probably wrongly) that there would be a reason .. public health, crop damage, invasive species etc ...that places a specific species onto the list. Not with animals just birds. With Hares its complex lets say, I know one guy who has been convicted of an offence that doesn't and didn't exist though his representation was poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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