Do you really want this lot

[jasper3]

I don't normally do these political threads, but i am at a loss.

I can see this government has made progress at a big cost to most of us, and for many that would of hurt..

my concerns about UKIP are…they only seem strong in one area…there are many more subjects that need addressing.

and its members don't seem to be doing the party any good, just look at todays example…..

 

i am not saying the other parties are any better, but UKIP does need to sort out its policies and members

as it stands, i can't see my vote going to them…...

[poontang]

Ahhh must be a limp dump then

 

I've got him down as a Snotty (Green).

[poontang]

 

my concerns about UKIP are…they only seem strong in one area…there are many more subjects that need addressing.

...

 

No, there really aren't.

 

This election is about the Eu. Domestic policy will follow.

 

No party has released a manifesto for the general election next year yet.

[FalconFN]

Yes I personally do, have a look at the crackpots that have come from all the three traditional parties and the convictions and prison terms handed out. Nigel has a fairly new party by comparison to those like the Liberals and conservative even Labour, new labour, new- newer Labour etc. and like a new garden it needs some weeding to get into shape. I should like to look at some serious weeding in all those parties.

 

Set us back 50 years? sounds good to me actually as it pre-dates that which the public actually said yes to. The rest? European birds directive, failed euro experiment, more new laws from persons we the public did not elect. All these thing shouldn't exist and 50 years ago we had more jobs than people, better education and apprentice training, a car trade that was exporting and the envy of the world. Set us back 50 years yes please, bring it on sooner the better

I can't resist adding some unbiased reason into this response (as many seem to agree with it), firstly, yes all parties do have crackpots BUT if you look at the numbers you do see a massive disparity in the density of nut-jobs in politics. The main 3 parties have more than 19,000 officials in political posts thorough the UK....UKIP have just 236 and it seems that 235 of these are doing there best to show up UKIP as an idiot-magnet. Yes, you can say there is a smear campaign or closer focus put on UKIP, but in reality there are fewer people making dis-proportionally more gaffs that the main 3 (even though they are outnumbered more than 80 to 1).

 

We'd all like a stronger export industry but those times have gone for good now and the EU has nothing to do with their passing (look at Germany - they seem to alright on the car front), if you can show me where UKIP has plans to increase manufacturing exports without massive subsidies to undercut places like China then show me. The future of our export industry is in high-end and progressive industries, such as computing, education, technology etc, it won't have a future by regressing to poorly paid and heavily subsidized manufacturing powered by coal, which is what UKIP seem to want to do.

 

I should add though that the last few governments have done a truly terrible job in that respect so I can understand the points.

[islandgun]

I can't resist adding some unbiased reason into this response (as many seem to agree with it), firstly, yes all parties do have crackpots BUT if you look at the numbers you do see a massive disparity in the density of nut-jobs in politics. The main 3 parties have more than 19,000 officials in political posts thorough the UK....UKIP have just 236 and it seems that 235 of these are doing there best to show up UKIP as an idiot-magnet. Yes, you can say there is a smear campaign or closer focus put on UKIP, but in reality there are fewer people making dis-proportionally more gaffs that the main 3 (even though they are outnumbered more than 80 to 1).

 

We'd all like a stronger export industry but those times have gone for good now and the EU has nothing to do with their passing (look at Germany - they seem to alright on the car front), if you can show me where UKIP has plans to increase manufacturing exports without massive subsidies to undercut places like China then show me. The future of our export industry is in high-end and progressive industries, such as computing, education, technology etc, it won't have a future by regressing to poorly paid and heavily subsidized manufacturing powered by coal, which is what UKIP seem to want to do.

 

I should add though that the last few governments have done a truly terrible job in that respect so I can understand the points.

Thanks FalconFN

i always enjoy your reasoned observations. your insights have led me to the conclusion that the only way to confound the current political parties is to withhold my vote until some of them start to behave !

[kent]

Thanks FalconFN

i always enjoy your reasoned observations. your insights have led me to the conclusion that the only way to confound the current political parties is to withhold my vote until some of them start to behave !

 

Unfortunatly they don't care they only want votes. The Americans have a saying "if you don't vote don't grumble"

[kent]

I can't resist adding some unbiased reason into this response (as many seem to agree with it), firstly, yes all parties do have crackpots BUT if you look at the numbers you do see a massive disparity in the density of nut-jobs in politics. The main 3 parties have more than 19,000 officials in political posts thorough the UK....UKIP have just 236 and it seems that 235 of these are doing there best to show up UKIP as an idiot-magnet. Yes, you can say there is a smear campaign or closer focus put on UKIP, but in reality there are fewer people making dis-proportionally more gaffs that the main 3 (even though they are outnumbered more than 80 to 1).

 

We'd all like a stronger export industry but those times have gone for good now and the EU has nothing to do with their passing (look at Germany - they seem to alright on the car front), if you can show me where UKIP has plans to increase manufacturing exports without massive subsidies to undercut places like China then show me. The future of our export industry is in high-end and progressive industries, such as computing, education, technology etc, it won't have a future by regressing to poorly paid and heavily subsidized manufacturing powered by coal, which is what UKIP seem to want to do.

 

I should add though that the last few governments have done a truly terrible job in that respect so I can understand the points.

 

Try and look outside of the UK for your news and remember all three of the current parties have much to loose. We have had years of sleeze and crime for the so called main three. UKIP are looking at the EU election not the GE are we better taking a turn to out of an expensive club as its biggest customer in Europe? or carry on paying for a failing experiment.? The EU fees alone will pay for a lot of training, education and infrastructure.

I should be surprised if UKIP became the next government but I should not be surprised if they won the most EU seats and formed a major part in the next Gov. I should also be surprised if a few posts were not filled from ex- other party faithful.

We are getting more legislation from the EU coming from people we cannot even vote for, this is not democracy any UK GE will not be able to change much as is neither will your vote until we sort the first issue which is the EU.

Look to the talk of the greylag and the EU birds directive to see it has an effect, the gun control everything and you never voted for a German or Frenchman to act for you did you now?

[FalconFN]

Being discontented with the EU is not a good enough reason to vote UKIP, in my opinion. I can understand the protest vote side of it, send a message to Westminster and all that, but to me voting UKIP is buying a cow to cut your grass, it'll keep the grass short but it $#!? everywhere and no-one will come round for a barbecue. As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for.......

[welsh1]

Or you could vote for one of the main parties,they always keep their word,don't they?

 

[FalconFN]

You can't keep shoving examples of other politician's failures into a thread every time there is a legitimate concern over UKIP. Politicans, especially the ones that put themselves forward to be leader are usually untrustworthy, egotistical snake oil salesmen with an overly high opinion if themselves so comparing them is pretty pointless. It is much better to look at the party and their policies, not the leader.

Edit: Cameron did say recently that he will step down if he can't get a referendum on Europe, and if there is a referndum, would people still vote UKIP?

Edited May 3, 2014 by FalconFN

[welsh1]

You can't keep shoving examples of other politician's failures into a thread every time there is a legitimate concern over UKIP. Politicans, especially the ones that put themselves forward to be leader are usually untrustworthy, egotistical snake oil salesmen with an overly high opinion if themselves so comparing them is pretty pointless. It is much better to look at the party and their policies, not the leader.

Edit: Cameron did say recently that he will step down if he can't get a referendum on Europe, and if there is a referndum, would people still vote UKIP?

Yes I can keep shoving examples of other politicians failures,it shows that the argument that UKIP are somehow not to be trusted is a flawed one.All the major parties have made promises to get into power and then changed the goal posts or just ignored them,they think the public are to stupid to react,and up until a while ago there was no way to protest,well now there is and the main parties are worried because they know the damage that can be done by splitting their voters.

UKIP are a party to shake the status quo,and scare the hell out of the main parties.

 

As for Cameron's promise,that will just be put back time and time again as usual,and even if we get a vote there will be clauses.

 

As for UKIP not knowing what to do,they do have a few people who know their way round the political system.

[Psyxologos]

Since we are talking about keeping promises...

Edited May 4, 2014 by Psyxologos

[88b]

I'll take my chances, the other have all let me down

[poontang]

I don't understand why people are getting so hung up on domestic policy.

 

If the Eu project isn't stopped there will soon be no need for domestic policy.

 

Everything will be decided in Brussels.

 

Open your eyes to the bigger picture folks.

[Scully]

You can't keep shoving examples of other politician's failures into a thread every time there is a legitimate concern over UKIP.Of course you can; it's called politics.

Politicans, especially the ones that put themselves forward to be leader are usually untrustworthy, egotistical snake oil salesmen with an overly high opinion if themselves so comparing them is pretty pointless. It is much better to look at the party and their policies, not the leader.

Edit: Cameron did say recently that he will step down if he can't get a referendum on Europe, and if there is a referndum, would people still vote UKIP? All the other parties had to do to get rid of UKIP was to hold a referendum. That's all they had to do, and UKIP would have faded into obscurity. But they didn't and UKIP haven't. They can't deny they haven't had the chance as both mainstream parties have had turns in power for how long now, as oppose to UKIP who have never been in power. As the saying goes, 'all it takes for evil (UKIP apparently) to prosper is for good men (mainstream parties apparently) to do nothing'. It is the mainstream parties failure to act which has brought us to where we are now.

[islandgun]

You have made the fatal mistake of assuming from my previous avatar of Marge Farage that I vote Tory.... WRONG !

 

Just for you I've changed it

Not sure about your new avatar FM , one is definitely anti Europe whilst the other was definitely pro Europe, although his technique left a lot to be desired, mind you it did lead to full employment and a housing boom although not in a nice way

[kent]

I don't understand why people are getting so hung up on domestic policy.

 

If the Eu project isn't stopped there will soon be no need for domestic policy.

 

Everything will be decided in Brussels.

 

Open your eyes to the bigger picture folks.

 

Exactly, are people forgetting this is an EU election and as shown there have been too many big fat lies made by the other parties just so they can get elected. No point being lied to over and over and over again unless your so dumb and gullible to believe it. Just thanks to keeping our currency we have a better chance than others to make good, the fact that we are the biggest customer is a bad thing for our long term home economy but no bad thing for our negotiations. Did nobody notice how keen Scotland is to have the British pound, there is very good reason to that the Euro experiment will collapse its just a case of when

If you think we have to buy from Europe look at were a lot of the stock in the supermarket comes from. This sounds crazy at present but if we said no cars can or will be bought within the UK unless they are made here do you honestly think the Likes of Ford, Nissan etc would move their plants? Have you seen what the French drive? Will we then see Merc and BMW wanting to build plants? Ok so this wont be done but just saying THE CUSTOMER IS KING, we buy more than we sell that will turn us into a third world nobody and our children wont thank us.

We are already up the creek and heading for the waterfall but we have this chance. Don't fret about how many candidates UKIP have Politicians have past history of joining a winning team. Pick the leader you want for us in Europe Clegg, Cam-moron or Nigel, I think when you look at the past history and lies from the former two you might find the choice clearer

[Gimlet]

 

You can't keep shoving examples of other politician's failures into a thread every time there is a legitimate concern over UKIP.Of course you can; it's called politics.

Politicans, especially the ones that put themselves forward to be leader are usually untrustworthy, egotistical snake oil salesmen with an overly high opinion if themselves so comparing them is pretty pointless. It is much better to look at the party and their policies, not the leader.

Edit: Cameron did say recently that he will step down if he can't get a referendum on Europe, and if there is a referndum, would people still vote UKIP? All the other parties had to do to get rid of UKIP was to hold a referendum. That's all they had to do, and UKIP would have faded into obscurity. But they didn't and UKIP haven't. They can't deny they haven't had the chance as both mainstream parties have had turns in power for how long now, as oppose to UKIP who have never been in power. As the saying goes, 'all it takes for evil (UKIP apparently) to prosper is for good men (mainstream parties apparently) to do nothing'. It is the mainstream parties failure to act which has brought us to where we are now.

 

 

 

The problem with the referendum question is that for UK withdrawal from the EU to be a serious proposition - and it must be a serious proposition which has been planned for or any referendum is a pointless sham - Parliament must repeal the 1972 European Communities Act, then the government of the day must issue a formal declaration to the EU Parliament and Commission that it intends to take the UK out of the EU following the approval of the British people in a referendum the date for which will have been set. Cameron, at this point, can open the negotiations he hopes to have with the other 27 member states about getting special privileged terms of membership just for Britain, which will have to be approved unanimously (Poland and France have already said they will veto any such negotiations taking place, never mind the details, so the ship is sunk before its left dry dock).

But none of the Westminster parties are prepared to take the steps necessary to make an in/out EU referendum a legal, workable, constitutional reality. Labour, in fact is the most consistent. They won't hold one at all. Full stop. The Lib/Dems under Menzies Campbell and Charles Kennedy used to think a referendum would be a good idea to settle the issue once and for all until Nick Clegg became leader and realising his only hope of continuing in full time employment until retirement lay in becoming an EU Commissioner, ruled one out as well.

So the millions of British people who demand the final say in how their country is governed have very few options. They can vote Tory for comforting familiarity and a mythic referendum which, like Tantalus's grapes will be eternally just out of reach, or they can vote Ukip, knowing that the party will never form a majority government but hoping that by sheer weight of numbers they will achieve critical mass and force the other parties to accept that this time we really do mean it: we want a vote, a real one, and governance of this country without one will be untenable.

That process is already under way. Cameron is wavering and stumbling. The caveats he hoped would lock his referendum safely away in never never land are working loose. Even Labour has held its nose and made sniffy, condescending mention of the R word. But It shouldn't be this way. We should not have to rely on small fringe parties to break open a closed shop. Political parties should be competing to provide democratic representation, not competing to withhold it. This isn't going to go away. The grown-ups demand to be treated as grow-ups. Ukip haters can shout and squeal and indulge in all the infantile antics they like such as putting Hitler moustaches on pictures of Nigel Farage, but with every tantrum, smear and insult another adult joins the queue of those who've had enough.

[geordieh]

Do you really want this lot to have a say in the future of Britain's Politics

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-candidate-susp

ended-after-claiming-muslims-are-devils-kids-9320244.html

 

I'm scared and Im sweating profusely.

 

They will set this country back 50 years.

 

Being slightly right wing I can't even see why he has been suspended

Edited May 4, 2014 by geordieh

[Mungler]

they can vote Ukip, knowing that the party will never form a majority government but hoping that by sheer weight of numbers they will achieve critical mass and force the other parties to accept that this time we really do mean it.....

 

This. But it's not just about Europe.

 

It's about everyone having enough of the professional breed of politicians who have never done a days work or run a business and who enter politics just to feather their own nests and mix and deal with more just like them.

 

UKIP is the anti party party, and more.

 

It's about time the major political parties took a proper look at themselves but i think it's too late - they are all rotten to the core.

[Jay]

 

 

The problem with the referendum question is that for UK withdrawal from the EU to be a serious proposition - and it must be a serious proposition which has been planned for or any referendum is a pointless sham - Parliament must repeal the 1972 European Communities Act, then the government of the day must issue a formal declaration to the EU Parliament and Commission that it intends to take the UK out of the EU following the approval of the British people in a referendum the date for which will have been set. Cameron, at this point, can open the negotiations he hopes to have with the other 27 member states about getting special privileged terms of membership just for Britain, which will have to be approved unanimously (Poland and France have already said they will veto any such negotiations taking place, never mind the details, so the ship is sunk before its left dry dock).

But none of the Westminster parties are prepared to take the steps necessary to make an in/out EU referendum a legal, workable, constitutional reality. Labour, in fact is the most consistent. They won't hold one at all. Full stop. The Lib/Dems under Menzies Campbell and Charles Kennedy used to think a referendum would be a good idea to settle the issue once and for all until Nick Clegg became leader and realising his only hope of continuing in full time employment until retirement lay in becoming an EU Commissioner, ruled one out as well.

So the millions of British people who demand the final say in how their country is governed have very few options. They can vote Tory for comforting familiarity and a mythic referendum which, like Tantalus's grapes will be eternally just out of reach, or they can vote Ukip, knowing that the party will never form a majority government but hoping that by sheer weight of numbers they will achieve critical mass and force the other parties to accept that this time we really do mean it: we want a vote, a real one, and governance of this country without one will be untenable.

That process is already under way. Cameron is wavering and stumbling. The caveats he hoped would lock his referendum safely away in never never land are working loose. Even Labour has held its nose and made sniffy, condescending mention of the R word. But It shouldn't be this way. We should not have to rely on small fringe parties to break open a closed shop. Political parties should be competing to provide democratic representation, not competing to withhold it. This isn't going to go away. The grown-ups demand to be treated as grow-ups. Ukip haters can shout and squeal and indulge in all the infantile antics they like such as putting Hitler moustaches on pictures of Nigel Farage, but with every tantrum, smear and insult another adult joins the queue of those who've had enough.

well said

[sable]

This. But it's not just about Europe.

 

It's about everyone having enough of the professional breed of politicians who have never done a days work or run a business and who enter politics just to feather their own nests and mix and deal with more just like them.

 

UKIP is the anti party party, and more.

 

It's about time the major political parties took a proper look at themselves but i think it's too late - they are all rotten to the core.

100% correct

[kent]

The problem with the referendum question is that for UK withdrawal from the EU to be a serious proposition - and it must be a serious proposition which has been planned for or any referendum is a pointless sham - Parliament must repeal the 1972 European Communities Act, then the government of the day must issue a formal declaration to the EU Parliament and Commission that it intends to take the UK out of the EU following the approval of the British people in a referendum the date for which will have been set. Cameron, at this point, can open the negotiations he hopes to have with the other 27 member states about getting special privileged terms of membership just for Britain, which will have to be approved unanimously (Poland and France have already said they will veto any such negotiations taking place, never mind the details, so the ship is sunk before its left dry dock).

But none of the Westminster parties are prepared to take the steps necessary to make an in/out EU referendum a legal, workable, constitutional reality. Labour, in fact is the most consistent. They won't hold one at all. Full stop. The Lib/Dems under Menzies Campbell and Charles Kennedy used to think a referendum would be a good idea to settle the issue once and for all until Nick Clegg became leader and realising his only hope of continuing in full time employment until retirement lay in becoming an EU Commissioner, ruled one out as well.

So the millions of British people who demand the final say in how their country is governed have very few options. They can vote Tory for comforting familiarity and a mythic referendum which, like Tantalus's grapes will be eternally just out of reach, or they can vote Ukip, knowing that the party will never form a majority government but hoping that by sheer weight of numbers they will achieve critical mass and force the other parties to accept that this time we really do mean it: we want a vote, a real one, and governance of this country without one will be untenable.

That process is already under way. Cameron is wavering and stumbling. The caveats he hoped would lock his referendum safely away in never never land are working loose. Even Labour has held its nose and made sniffy, condescending mention of the R word. But It shouldn't be this way. We should not have to rely on small fringe parties to break open a closed shop. Political parties should be competing to provide democratic representation, not competing to withhold it. This isn't going to go away. The grown-ups demand to be treated as grow-ups. Ukip haters can shout and squeal and indulge in all the infantile antics they like such as putting Hitler moustaches on pictures of Nigel Farage, but with every tantrum, smear and insult another adult joins the queue of those who've had enough.

Cant argue with that but many will, at least they still have that option even if they cannot make a real difference at the general elections AT PRESENT

[Elmer Fudd.]

 

 

The problem with the referendum question is that for UK withdrawal from the EU to be a serious proposition - and it must be a serious proposition which has been planned for or any referendum is a pointless sham - Parliament must repeal the 1972 European Communities Act, then the government of the day must issue a formal declaration to the EU Parliament and Commission that it intends to take the UK out of the EU following the approval of the British people in a referendum the date for which will have been set. Cameron, at this point, can open the negotiations he hopes to have with the other 27 member states about getting special privileged terms of membership just for Britain, which will have to be approved unanimously (Poland and France have already said they will veto any such negotiations taking place, never mind the details, so the ship is sunk before its left dry dock).

But none of the Westminster parties are prepared to take the steps necessary to make an in/out EU referendum a legal, workable, constitutional reality. Labour, in fact is the most consistent. They won't hold one at all. Full stop. The Lib/Dems under Menzies Campbell and Charles Kennedy used to think a referendum would be a good idea to settle the issue once and for all until Nick Clegg became leader and realising his only hope of continuing in full time employment until retirement lay in becoming an EU Commissioner, ruled one out as well.

So the millions of British people who demand the final say in how their country is governed have very few options. They can vote Tory for comforting familiarity and a mythic referendum which, like Tantalus's grapes will be eternally just out of reach, or they can vote Ukip, knowing that the party will never form a majority government but hoping that by sheer weight of numbers they will achieve critical mass and force the other parties to accept that this time we really do mean it: we want a vote, a real one, and governance of this country without one will be untenable.

That process is already under way. Cameron is wavering and stumbling. The caveats he hoped would lock his referendum safely away in never never land are working loose. Even Labour has held its nose and made sniffy, condescending mention of the R word. But It shouldn't be this way. We should not have to rely on small fringe parties to break open a closed shop. Political parties should be competing to provide democratic representation, not competing to withhold it. This isn't going to go away. The grown-ups demand to be treated as grow-ups. Ukip haters can shout and squeal and indulge in all the infantile antics they like such as putting Hitler moustaches on pictures of Nigel Farage, but with every tantrum, smear and insult another adult joins the queue of those who've had enough.

Spot on as usual Gimlet.

[woodcock11]

It is very very, easy for any politician of whatever political persuasion to promise the earth if and when they get elected. In other words they can make promises that they think the electorate will want to hear.

 

However and if they are elected and form a Government, reality sets in and they just cannot offer all that they promise.

 

UKIP have never ever been in power - they won a number of seats at the last European elections - their numbers then went down as some were expelled from the party, others defected and basically they were shown up to be as dodgy as any other politicians.....

 

Where I believe that they let themselves down was by their abstentionist policy from participating in the debates and votes at Brussels and Strasbourg. If they were serious politicians, they should have stood up, spoken out and debated, rather than just launch into rather childish diatribes against the European Parliament hierarchy. That would at least have given us a chance to consider how effective they were and as to whether their contributions made any sense.

 

So what do we know about UKIP - well, if Farage did not exist very little - I honestly cannot even think of the name of another UKIP MEP, apart from the odd fruitcake who has been chucked out - Godfrey Bloom - remember him?

 

Current Members of the European Parliament[edit] Constituency MEP(s) East Midlands Derek Clark, Roger Helmer East of England Stuart Agnew London Gerard Batten North West England Paul Nuttall South East England Nigel Farage South West England Trevor Colman, William Dartmouth Wales

John Bufton

They don't exactly spring to mind as household names

 

Apart from Bloom, four other UKIP MEPs out of the thirteen elected in 2010 no longer represent UKIP - that is 30% gone..........

 

It is not exactly a vote of confidence in that party