Thames Valley Police and Mentoring Conditions

[Zetter]

Hi All

 

From a previous thread I am about to stick in my application for my FAC I have all the forms sorted and permission from the farmer whos land I shoot over. However has anyone had any experience of TVP on a recent application? As doing a bit of reading they seem to have been a big fan of mentoring conditions on new FAC grants in the recent past.

Now I know that ACPO has said that these should not be applied in a recent update but I was wondering if this has filtered through to TVP yet?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Neil

 

 

[Dunkield]

My mate applied for a .22lr in Berks a couple of years ago.

He had no previous rifle experience, they wanted mentoring and insisted on him buying a high seat for his land as well.

Just to give you a real example.

[lloydi73]

Hi Zetter....

 

I'm in the same situation as you, so am interetsed in the reposnes that come back. My FEO has said he wants to see letters confirming mentoring with my application!! I'm out of Oxfordshire (Thames Valley) as well.....

[jimmyb79]

This is sadly utter nonsense, and shows one of the many inconsistencies between forces. I'd be onto BASC (if you're a member) to support your case where possible, as mentoring for a rimfire is a step too far in my opinion, particularly when an FEO could test knowledge of gun safety and shot safety by questioning if necessary.

[Essex Keeper]

When I got my mentoring condition for .223 I wasn't happy but I can see why he did it

 

Anyway I soon had it of and now have an open fac

[Zetter]

Well I have sent my application on with the appropritate documentation LLoyd if they want mentoring they can question it at the interview. I have full maps of the area I will be / currently shoot over and have carried out a risk assessment with the farmer on the suitable area for use of rimfire taking into account good backstops, footpaths ect so as advised in a previous threat by people on here I am trying to cover every angle.

I will see what the FEO says, the question will be if she wants mentoring weather to kick off about it with BASC or just grin and bear it asking if some friends will mentor me.

[Beretta06]

I have a friend whom I mentor for - or did. He questioned the condition with BASC when it was first put on his licence and was told that, unfortunately, the CoP can impose the condition if he wished.

[GHE]

This is sadly utter nonsense, and shows one of the many inconsistencies between forces. I'd be onto BASC (if you're a member) to support your case where possible, as mentoring for a rimfire is a step too far in my opinion, particularly when an FEO could test knowledge of gun safety and shot safety by questioning if necessary.

I don't see why there should be any different mentoring conditions for different calibres, a .22 rimfire has the potential to be extremely dangerous, the bullets can richochet all over the place and, with a mod fitted, they are silent, so don't give any warning to anyone else who may be in the area.

 

Mentoring does seem to be more and more common now, I've mentored a few different people over the last couple of years or so and have written with an honest opinion about them, which so far has always amounted to a good reference. And, each time, the police have then phoned me to check, which I think is the right thing to do.

 

But that's West Yorkshire, where the Licensing department always seem to me to be professional and sensible.

[Scully]

There was a thread on this forum about this last year some time. I don't recall whether a particular police force was included but ACPO had only deemed mentoring unnecessary in favour of a recognised qualification such as DSC1, and not deemed mentoring unnecessary outright. No organisation is going to oppose DSC1 or similar.

Do a search, it will still be on here somewhere.

[jimmyb79]

I don't see why there should be any different mentoring conditions for different calibres, a .22 rimfire has the potential to be extremely dangerous, the bullets can richochet all over the place and, with a mod fitted, they are silent, so don't give any warning to anyone else who may be in the area.

 

Mentoring does seem to be more and more common now, I've mentored a few different people over the last couple of years or so and have written with an honest opinion about them, which so far has always amounted to a good reference. And, each time, the police have then phoned me to check, which I think is the right thing to do.

 

But that's West Yorkshire, where the Licensing department always seem to me to be professional and sensible.

I can see a need where the applicant has no previous experience of rifles and has good reason to possess but effectively little or no knowledge of rifle safety and principles of what is a safe shot. The issue of mentoring can be very subjective as who is to say who makes a suitable mentor other than someone with an FAC. It sounds like you take a mentoring role seriously, but I'm sure there are some who wouldn't take it as such.

 

I agree that a .22 is no more safe than a larger calibre other than from its effective range, however I'd far rather see a one day course from BASC or similar of rifle safety and principles of safe shooting than a mentoring condition for someone with no knowledge or experience. Some people just don't have access to a mentor, or like me, when I started shooting, the landowner was happy for me to shoot, but no-one else to accompany me on their land.

 

The courses are available, but whether they'd be accepted in lieu of a mentoring condition, I wouldn't know.

[GHE]

I can see a need where the applicant has no previous experience of rifles and has good reason to possess but effectively little or no knowledge of rifle safety and principles of what is a safe shot. The issue of mentoring can be very subjective as who is to say who makes a suitable mentor other than someone with an FAC. It sounds like you take a mentoring role seriously, but I'm sure there are some who wouldn't take it as such.

 

I agree that a .22 is no more safe than a larger calibre other than from its effective range, however I'd far rather see a one day course from BASC or similar of rifle safety and principles of safe shooting than a mentoring condition for someone with no knowledge or experience. Some people just don't have access to a mentor, or like me, when I started shooting, the landowner was happy for me to shoot, but no-one else to accompany me on their land.

 

The courses are available, but whether they'd be accepted in lieu of a mentoring condition, I wouldn't know.

In my (limited) experience, mentoring is asked for when the applicant either has no experience at all and wants to shoot over land, or has only shot under supervison at ranges.

Some people, although responsible and safety concious, just have no idea. Many years ago, I took someone out who thought it was OK to shoot ducks on a pond, with a .22 that would richochet straight off the surface!

 

Courses would probably be even better, as long as they had a practical element, but the prices seem to me to put them beyond the reach of a lot of people.

[jimmyb79]

Agreed, we've all heard the stories of people shooting things in trees with rimfires too!

[Scully]

Agreed, we've all heard the stories of people shooting things in trees with rimfires too!

Yes. Richard Brigham did an article on it in 'Sporting Gun' a few years ago. Very effective it is too.

[oxfordfowler]

TVP placed mentoring condition on me when I applied for my first FAC (rim fire) about 18 months ago.

 

At the time I was "not happy" moaned to the FEO and BASC - pretty much told to co-operate which I did. Anyway I got the FAC so went out with my mentor for 9 months (we shot over 200 Bunnies).

 

After 9 months I applied for the restriction to be lifted - sent in a letter from my mentor. No issues restriction lifted. Working on getting open ticket next.

 

Thing is even though I have been using shotguns for over 40 years - going out with the mentor did actually teach me a lot about the use of a rifle. And to be fair it was a good experience and in hindsight I can see why they use the mentoring condition.

 

 

 

OXF

[belly47]

I discussed this with FEO when I applied for my rimfires, there was never a chance of mentor condition as during our discussion we talked about my experience which was 20 years of shotgun and air rifle shooting.

 

being a safe shot is no different with any weapon, the basics are the same, ie safe back stop, and always asking yourself where is my shot going to end up if I miss or fire a shotgun in the air. If unsure do not take the shot

 

whilst you may not be experienced in the new calibre you are applying for the principle remains the same in my opinion and fortunately that of my FEO, if you demonstrate that you know the ballistics of a new calibre etc and at least have some shooting experience I don't think mentoring should be applied.

 

just my thoughts of course but always a good discussion point

[christophejames]

^{applying for my fac and sgc at the moment in Gloucestershire, I asked for a fac air, 22 rf, 17hmr. they originally said no and tried to insist on having a mentor due to not much recent experiencer. with a few phone calls to basc( mike everleigh ) and the firearms team in Gloucester they have agreed in principle to a fac air for now to gain some experience and apply for a variation in the near future for a rimfire. I was tempted to moan a bit more to get a rimfire as fac air seem very expensive. but just going to treat it as a learning curve for now. handed my application in in mid February, still waiting but think its coming to the end of the application!}