IRAQ !! was it a waste of time ?

[birdsallpl]

What I don't understand is that the extremists ((Isis) who are not an army as such are battled experienced fighters, but the government troops, who are supposed to be an army, are trained by the west and kitted out by the west at great expense are a complete shower of useless fighters. Surely when we the west was setting this army up, someone on the ground must have realised they were putting armour on custard. It tells me that due to pressure on the politicians to get our guys home we all pulled out to early. Typically public opinion and pressure from various groups prevents our Governments from finishing the job properly.

Edited June 19, 2014 by birdsallpl

[Gimlet]

Here's a compromise. We don't want to squander British lives and British money on this basket-case of a region - though politicians seem to think someone has to do some fighting for the sake of appearances - and we don't want radicalised fanatical half-wits beheading people and blowing themselves up on British streets; but we do have an endless supply of "British" Muslims who, bored with cloning credit cards, committing insurance frauds and abusing white children, are keen to go to the middle east and take part in "jihad". So why not kill several birds with one stone, so to speak, and encourage as many of them to go as possible and then don't let them back in? Everybody's happy.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Gimlet

[Hamster]

What I don't understand is that the extremists ((Isis) who are not an army as such are battled experienced fighters, but the government troops, who are supposed to be an army, are trained by the west and kitted out by the west at great expense are a complete shower of useless fighters. Surely when we the west was setting this army up, someone on the ground must have realised they were putting armour on custard. It tells me that due to pressure on the politicians to get our guys home we all pulled out to early. Typically public opinion and pressure from various groups prevents our Governments from finishing the job properly.

 

This is what puzzles me too, as always there must be much more to this than is allowed to meet the eye. Even half wits can surely muster a better resistance to groups of civies on the backs of trucks, all we keep seeing on TV is lightly armed kids with raised small arms.

 

The other thing that doesn't make sense is why Baghdad would ask the US for air strikes when it has planes and combat hellicopters itself !? I mean it must take all of two hours to reduce every single moving vehicle to charred metal.

[islandgun]

Here's a compromise. We don't want to squander British lives and British money on this basket-case of a region - though politicians seem to think someone has to do some fighting for the sake of appearances - and we don't want radicalised fanatical half-wits beheading people and blowing themselves up on British streets; but we do have an endless supply of "British" Muslims who, bored with cloning credit cards, committing insurance frauds and abusing white children, are keen to go to the middle east and take part in "jihad". So why not kill several birds with one stone, so to speak, and encourage as many of them to go as possible and then don't let them back in? Everybody's happy.

that sounds like a plan, we need a small arid continent where all the people who want to kill each other can go, they should then be supplied with arms and explosive and enough incentive to kill each other and left to it, I'm sure there would be an endless supply of recruits

[KFC]

What I don't understand is that the extremists ((Isis) who are not an army as such are battled experienced fighters, but the government troops, who are supposed to be an army, are trained by the west and kitted out by the west at great expense are a complete shower of useless fighters. Surely when we the west was setting this army up, someone on the ground must have realised they were putting armour on custard. It tells me that due to pressure on the politicians to get our guys home we all pulled out to early. Typically public opinion and pressure from various groups prevents our Governments from finishing the job properly.

It's probable that a bounty was paid to all those who undertook training. Given that the country was riddled with suicide bombers, car bombers and murders every day, which was unreported here, then any chance of some kind of regular income must have looked attractive.

 

Another reason is our lack of understanding of a feudal society. They fight until one tribe becomes too strong. That tribe then holds sway until another tribe becomes strong enough to challenge them.

 

One hope could be that since Bagdhad has been riven by loads of different militias all fighting and bombing each other they may now find a common enemy in ISIS and join together

[thepasty]

The difference is ISIS want to fight, the Iraqis dont....yet.... not Isis anyways, too busy fighting each other.

 

But having seen how they treat prisoners I bet the Iraqi army wont surrender as readily as before... they'll run away instead.

 

Isis being partly made up of Syrian militants and with Isis supporting the syrian uprising has given them a good few years of combat training.

 

Been watching the TV huh? of cause they're going to show "shocking" images of child soldiers that's what gets them viewers, they've got to up the anti as seeing armed men in the middle east killing each other is old hat.

Edited June 19, 2014 by thepasty

[toontastic]

Isis are sunni, a large portion of the Iraqi army are sunni almost all senior officers are Shia. There seems to be a strong reluctance amongst the sunni members of the Iraqi army to fight fellow sunni.

Some people seem to think of Isis as a bit of a ragtag bunch, truth is they are led by battle hardened leaders from Chechnya. Given the chance I'd rather fight Iraqi army any day of the week than fight dedicated religious motivated insurgents.

My regiment along with para and marines have been involved in some of the bloodiest fighting in recent years, if hamster thinks a half wit can do better then crack on pal.

[Gimlet]

that sounds like a plan, we need a small arid continent where all the people who want to kill each other can go, they should then be supplied with arms and explosive and enough incentive to kill each other and left to it, I'm sure there would be an endless supply of recruits

 

Good idea. If someone could blast the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea through into the Mediterranean we'd have the lot neatly marooned, Iraq, Israel, Syria and the whole Arabian peninsular, the lot. Fence it off and call it Talibanistan and shoot down anything that tries to fly out. Ideal.

Bit tough on poor innocent Oman. Perhaps we could partition them off.

[Hamster]

My regiment along with para and marines have been involved in some of the bloodiest fighting in recent years, if hamster thinks a half wit can do better then crack on pal.

 

Battle hardened, schmattle hardened, all the usual musings that kept coming about the Iraqi army having so called Elite Sadam Guards and battle hardened core soldiers that had fought the Iranians for 8 years that would prove incredibly hard to fight against , the worlds fourth largest army .....that was of course before they were routed and in the main used for target practice..............pal.

 

I have no doubt there is a correlation between Sunni/Shia recruits/army reluctance to take on fellow Muslims but if you want to believe trucks and Kalshnikovs can stand up to fighter jets and heavy anti personnel armament then you crack on pal.

 

There is something going on here, don't know what, but once the right people take the side they want things will move as quickly as they first did when few of us had even heard of Isis.

 

I have always suspected the Wests desire to see Iraq and even Iran split into smaller portions, this seems to be going the right way on that score, can't see the Kurds giving ground too readily.

[Gimlet]

 

 

I have always suspected the Wests desire to see Iraq and even Iran split into smaller portions, this seems to be going the right way on that score, can't see the Kurds giving ground too readily.

 

In fact in the chaos they've actually gained some. Kurdistan is now to all intents and purposes a separate state. It isn't going anywhere. If Iraq does split the problem is the small Sunni strip which is largely desert and surrounded by Shia, Allawite and Kurdish territory. It is non-viable as a nation state in its own right and it would be likely to disappear and leave a dispossessed and embittered people roaming the region.

[thepasty]

The kurds are already fighting back and have pushed back Isis.

[Fisherman Mike]

Are you an ostrich?

Are you a sheep ?

[toontastic]

Are you a sheep ?

Baa Baa

[overandunder2012]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

KW

you must be tonys mate your so keen to sort it out kw are you still worried the commies are coming? perhaps we should wade in there to after all they could start poisoning spys with radioactive material all over london if you dont stop em

Edited June 19, 2014 by overandunder2012

[truflex]

As long as it doesn't interfere with the World Cup let them get on with it.