Floating Chamber Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Eley First Fibre, no plastic at all. Hull Comp-X Fibre have a very thin "seal" stuck on on the top and bottom of the wad, appears to be coated paper but may be plastic. Eley wads are in house produced, from what appears to be pulped newsprint. (I stand to be corrected. However, their Kleena wads from yesteryear were made from sugar beet fibre.) The majority of fibre wads used by other companies are of the 'Diana' type; vegetable fibre with a membrane that prevents the lower level 'contact' shot adhering to the fibre material. Before fibre wads were introduced, the filler wad was mainly true felt. When felt was needed for war munitions, Eley developed the 'Pneumatic' Air cushion wad. It was a stout paper tube containing a thick sub calibre card; the tube was closed at both ends by a crimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Agree Figgy there is a very thin coating on top and bottom of the express wad (non on eley) which may be a plastic but it is thousands of an inch think not 6.5mm replacing the card over the powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Agree Figgy there is a very thin coating on top and bottom of the express wad (non on eley) which may be a plastic but it is thousands of an inch think not 6.5mm replacing the card over the powder. See post above. This is not a plastic wad. It is a membrane to stop shot adhering or embedding into the material. These are the famous DIANA wads, made in Italy and have been in standard use for over twenty years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 so there you are chaps you clearly don't know what you are buying ! so if you buy fibre in good faith and you find a disk in them what do you do ? my input to this is that I George will make fibre carts but put a disk in and mark it for the people who order my carts but also chaps did you know that you need a license from health and safety to take a cartridge to bits or cut it open the reason I use them is two fold 1 is for better ballistics coz really what the machine likes at its the best part of a full plastic wad for gas seals on the 2nd from left is the one I use on the array by floating chamber by gualandi its tapered into a kind of v and the utmost is that they go into the case more better and flatter on top of the powder now the 4 mm call them proper card ones are prone to go in on edge and stand up in the powder on edge then your wad comes on top so when the lance pushes it down it thinks its got it home but it has not and when you shoot there is a pocket of air coz the card is not lying flat on the powder this can now result in no pressure and the possibility of a stuck fibre wad in the barrel this chaps is why I hate loading fibre wad carts my granddad used to say it costs you nothing to watch and nothing to listen so if any of you can tell me how to get that card in at 4 times a second like plastic I will certainly look after you thanks George and I am not short of a few bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 The only way to really solve this problem is to have a wad unit that my late father constructed. In the 1970s, after I had taught him the simple principles of reloading, he became frustrated with the number of times the then 1/8" over powder card dropped in on the slant. This necessitated fetching it out and starting again. To solve this, after deciding on the height of his wadding column, he would sit for hours glueing a card to the top and bottom of each Kleena wad. The result, he could pick up a 'wad unit' and feed it through his press with no problem. Surely, with today's machinery, a sandwich of card/filler/card could be produced in sheets and cut into wad units. Result? True fibre wads that would eliminate feed problems. However, powder doses would have to be increased and today, it is all down to cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Gentlemen, I have just dug out some shells that my dear Father loaded in the 1970s. (He passed away in 1989 and I found a good supply of his shells in his then, by today's restraints, somewhat flimsy cabinet!) My father was a great believer in fibre wadded shells, and, here, cut for you is one of his reloads with the glued units I wrote about. The shell is a reloaded Gevelot Skeet 'Supervix'. This French company went to the dogs and later emerged as CHEDDITE, and went from strength to strength. Edited July 20, 2014 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Gentlemen, I have just dug out some shells that my dear Father loaded in the 1970s. (He passed away in 1989 and I found a good supply of his shells in his then, by today's restraints, somewhat flimsy cabinet!) My father was a great believer in fibre wadded shells, and, here, cut for you is one of his reloads with the glued units I wrote about. The shell is a reloaded Gevelot Skeet 'Supervix'. This French company went to the dogs and later emerged as CHEDDITE, and went from strength to strength. QUALITY !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 So if you want quality fibre cartridges? Easy load your own by hand then no problem with cards going on edge. But is it a big problem lots of us shoot at fibre wads only clay grounds and how often do you see or hear of a problem be it a misfire or poor report yet probably 2,3 or more thousand cartridges being shot each shoot by all present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 floating chamber you guessed it in one there is a firm in france called faye I am buying wads from them but as I use a plastic disc from guilandi which is 6.5 mm fat you have one second from the left on your photo now the magic question do you think its the overall thickness that's stopping the card from turning as the thickest I can find is from Diana at 4mm thick try doing it at home the 6.5mm does not turn inside the case as easy as the 4mm also say I put a 4mm over powder card in as say I need to fill a 20 mm space that would leave the main one to be 16mm so what would happen if I put one wad only at a 20mm without a over powder card because we r still closing a 20mm gap why must it be we have to put 2 fibres in instead of one now if you get your hands on some 28 gauge fibre make them drop to pieces in your hands you will see only one wad so why 2 wads for 12 bore and one wad for 28 gauge both shooting say 24 grams of shot but possibly higher pressure on the 28 gauge any offerings thank you george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) I am familiar with Faye wads. They produced (in1990s) a photodegradable plastic wad called the Faye 88. The greater surface area of a 12 gauge, compared to a 28 gauge would, I believe, result in a serious battering of the softer material of the filler wad. History has proved that a card is needed. However, speed of operation of the modern packing machines cause problems with the fragile material. Another point, the pressure relieving grooves on most plastic wads and obturators overcome the 'jump up' you get from the tight fitting card acting as a piston. Edited July 20, 2014 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Hi George You could load a 2.1/2 case instead of 2.3/4 That could solve the column length and create a more versatile shell Just a thought All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 The 28 gauge fiber wads your talking about George, I hope their the super quick and smooth game ones we spoke about you making when you choose your powder. Looking forward to shooting some at game this season. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 yes mr browning2 but you supply 30 000 to a grouse moor at about 7000 pounds and get a wad stuck and they clatter the lot back to you where do you think all these empty drums of cut offs come from what we hear so much about all those wasted carts have been chopped to get the lead back I personally don't think there is a cartridge firm or company that has not had stuff returned due to one problem or another you let that machine of mine run at full pelt with a mistake and that's 2000 pounds gone west at 12000 per hour then you would have to chop them meaning more work time and money you have to be careful its not easy thanks george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 mr figgy let me get this week over people gone mad its nice to be popular then get your sandwiches come up mine bring your 28 gauge we will make carts in 28 gauge and go to test them I will not charge you too much ha ha George then you can tell them all a good story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Im saying nothing, think he's took the hump with me lol .. Might of been me saying the 32g 5's are "very punchy" and compared to the gamebore l used on a number of days alobg side proper cartridges, the gamebore were far nicer to use "imho" that is .. anyhow, l thought l'd try some 30g proper cartridges and see if they suited me/gun etc better .. so text the number given by George, "twice" .. not a sausage back lol .. anyhow, l only ever gave a personal opinion, regards the cartridges purchased. And l stick by it .. atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipper Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I went through the same chore of glueing a card wad onto a kleena wads in the 70 s just like Floating chambers father did .I stopped when plaswads came in . i also used a roll turnover to make the crimp pretty . Dipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 mr floating chamber the machine is called a super rapida it is the double headed model so it makes 2 at a time which is roughly 4 carts a second but it does have a speed regulator on it now if I run it slowly at about 85% it works out about 10 000 per hour that's made printed and packed theres a box of 25 done printed and packed every 5.4 seconds its sold as a 12000 per hour it will do it but you have to have eyes well you know where so I try to run it slower and it then pulls the wads up due to vacuum pressure then the lance with the sensor on top stops the machine as it thinks there is no wad in now yes on the plastics you see a small notch to let the compressed air out but there is nothing in the Diana 4 mm overpowder cards any feed back sir thank you George you sound a very experienced chap have you ever worked on a double headed machine? thanks again george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 hold on lads I am not a octopuss only using me trigger finger cannot talk to every body ha ha keep in touch george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 not fancy a truck top go to www.carryboy.info got to be easier than making cartridges thanks george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hoggysreels I would not worry, the more I read the more I want to vote with my feet - lol. Floating Chamber - how much you going to charge for consultancy fee? (to quote - I have a bob or too). What joy pigeon watch is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 you know, its pretty cool that a shell manufacturers will engage in converse with us PW. fibre or true fibre wads are an issue today. todays demands on the traditional fibre wad are part of its downfall. it appears everyone needs 1500fps + to shoot stuff. now how do you get 1500fps without any recoil? how do you get 1500fps full stop? the only way you can get that is with oodles of slow powder, thats an extra cost. powder is expensive ! plastic is the modern material, i think that is the way forward. unfortunaely plastic life expectancy, even biodegradable ones are the issue. i shot fibre only for about 6-7 years. thats about 1/4 of my shooting lifetime. i`m shooting plastic as the ground i go to, is plastic. i am moving back over to fibre, when i can either make, or buy cheap enough. sadly much as "plastic fantastic", its the environment issue thats creeping in. with steel shot its an even bigger issue. as one place i have shot is "fibre only, no lead" so that means bismuth. and that stuff is awful. environment Vs performance Vs cost. thats what it boils down to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 theres nowt for nowt these days and if floating can fix this problem 100 per sent by any means either electric or mechanical I will willingly pay he just has to name his price it doesn't take much to loose business or you get your order returned and possibly have to cut them open to salvage the lead and that customer is way gone so after spending what I have spent whats the problem of a bit more to correct a problem before it happens big style??? ever herd of research and development why do we hear about all these powder drums of cut offs coming out of various factory's why so much waste who has made a mistake I bet the operator of the machine who made the mistake would not like to pay the cost remember it costs nothing to watch and nothing to listen thanks george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 you know, its pretty cool that a shell manufacturers will engage in converse with us PW. o. Glad someone else noticed that too, the rest of them wouldn't dare come anywhere near forums lest we ask difficult questions like the price of lead going down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 hey cookie I wish I could write like you you r very good but we cannot all be good can we ? now me ill go to work now make 1 ton of about 31250 carts be done at about 1 o clock and go and shut some pigeons have me jam and bread and flask train me little dog then finish when the pigeons tell me go back to work put in another hour making things ready for tomorrow and do it all again its awfull having to do this about 200 days a year any way I am bringing in my new friend mr figgy next week to have one day in my life with me we will develop some nice 28 gauge loads in fibre then go and shoot them pity you r so far away what a life I don't know how I do it that's it folks thanks george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 lead on the door best you can get this month about 1650 plus the vodka and tonic vat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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