Selling rifle with no cert ?

[rimmie]

Hi all, my firearms licence is away for veriation, but I have provistionly sold my .223. I have photocopied the front cover of my cert. So as long as I know my license number is that ok ? I'm only a bit worried as I'm sending it through RFD.

[Scully]

Your FAC doesn't need to go 'away' for a variation. Contact your licensing authority and tell them you need it back.

[FX90]

Your FAC doesn't need to go 'away' for a variation. Contact your licensing authority and tell them you need it back.

The variation has to be typed on your ticket

[rimmie]

I'm shore it does sculls, I'm swapping calibres. I'm just not sure if it's going to be a problem ?

[r1steele]

Your FAC doesn't need to go 'away' for a variation. Contact your licensing authority and tell them you need it back

It has to go away for variation otherwise they cannot change it. It doesn't need to be sent back for renewals.

[Scully]

It's been so long since I had a variation I may be wrong, but I thought I'd received a complete new certificate last time I varied. My apologies for giving duff info' .

[Cumbrian]

It's been so long since I had a variation I may be wrong, but I thought I'd received a complete new certificate last time I varied. My apologies for giving duff info' .

I think you are entirely correct: I have recently sent away my certificate with an application for a variation, as required by Hampshire Constabulary Firearms Licensing Department. I expect a new one in due course.

[r1steele]

It's been so long since I had a variation I may be wrong, but I thought I'd received a complete new certificate last time I varied. My apologies for giving duff info' .

You do get a new one but you still send your old one when asking for a variation. Tut tut, fancy giving duff information on PW

[Olliesims]

I sent my license in with Warwickshire before they merged, and was told I didn't have to send my license he would of collected it when he comes to see me about the variation

[Scully]

You do get a new one but you still send your old one when asking for a variation. Tut tut, fancy giving duff information on PW

The point I was trying to make is that if you receive a new one with a variation, as you do with a renewal, then there is no requirement to send in your current one when applying for either a variation or renewal.

[phaedra1106]

The point I was trying to make is that if you receive a new one with a variation, as you do with a renewal, then there is no requirement to send in your current one when applying for either a variation or renewal.

For a variation there is, it's clearly listed on the top of form 202

 

"NOTE: THE CERTIFICATE TO BE VARIED MUST BE ENCLOSED WITH THIS FORM"

[The Essex Hunter]

It's been so long since I had a variation I may be wrong, but I thought I'd received a complete new certificate last time I varied. My apologies for giving duff info' .

With statements like that...we might start calling you KENT lol.........

 

TEH

[Scully]

For a variation there is, it's clearly listed on the top of form 202

 

"NOTE: THE CERTIFICATE TO BE VARIED MUST BE ENCLOSED WITH THIS FORM"

Do you get back the certificate you enclosed though, or is it a brand new one like on renewal? Licensing authorities claim the expiring (on renewal)

ticket should be 'enclosed' also, but there is no obligation to do so.

If you get back the certificate you enclosed for a variation, then fair enough, but if you are sent a new then there is obviously no reason to enclose it.

Can anyone remember? Anyone varied their ticket recently? Was it the one you sent off or a brand spanker ?

we might start calling you KENT lol.........

 

TEH

I've been called worse.

[r1steele]

Do you get back the certificate you enclosed though, or is it a brand new one like on renewal? Licensing authorities claim the expiring (on renewal)

ticket should be 'enclosed' also, but there is no obligation to do so.

If you get back the certificate you enclosed for a variation, then fair enough, but if you are sent a new then there is obviously no reason to enclose it.

Can anyone remember? Anyone varied their ticket recently? Was it the one you sent off or a brand spanker ?

I've been called worse.

You get a new ticket. The wording on renewal forms doesn't actually ask for the current FAC to be included with the application but the variation form does.

[Scully]

You get a new ticket. The wording on renewal forms doesn't actually ask for the current FAC to be included with the application but the variation form does.

I thought applications for renewals, grants and variations were all applied for using the one same form? Is this no longer the case?

Quote: 'Renewal or variations only'.....'In the case of an application for RENEWAL or variation, the current certificate should be included with the application.'

Think I'm going to have to contact my shooting organisation to get clarification on this. If you get a new ticket with a variation, then the variation obviously isn't typed on the existing one as has been said, so there is no obligation to enclose your current one regardless of 'MUST' or 'SHOULD'. Will have a gander through HO guidance to Police.

[phaedra1106]

The current and correct versions (ie. not altered by local police forces) as issued by the Home Office can always be found on the BASC web site

 

http://basc.org.uk/firearms/how-to-apply-for-a-certificate/

 

Form 201/201A runs to 11 pages plus the guidance notes, some forces add extra bits like medical and other information requests. Durham's version is 18 pages as they "ask" for details of shooting land authority and/or details of two gun clubs along with signatures from those involved ie. land owner/tenant and shooting club secretaries.

 

The only forms you are legally required to submit are those provided on the BASC site.

Edited September 20, 2014 by phaedra1106

[Scully]

I thought applications for renewals, grants and variations were all applied for using the one same form? Is this no longer the case?

Quote: 'Renewal or variations only'.....'In the case of an application for RENEWAL or variation, the current certificate should be included with the application.'

Think I'm going to have to contact my shooting organisation to get clarification on this. If you get a new ticket with a variation, then the variation obviously isn't typed on the existing one as has been said, so there is no obligation to enclose your current one regardless of 'MUST' or 'SHOULD'. Will have a gander through HO guidance to Police.

Have contacted my organisation and await reply. Had a gander through HO Guidance July 2014, and it does indeed state as above, that current tickets should be submitted along with fees where relevant for variations and renewals, so I wonder how Bill Harriman manages to hang onto his? He states he has every one he has ever been issued with, and they aren't returned to him as he doesn't submit them in the first place.

[rimmie]

I can't do it, went my local RFD and was told I can't send it without my licence 😞

[Scully]

Just had a reply from the NGO. There is no legal requirement to enclose either your FAC/SGC for either a variation nor renewal despite what licensing says. To do so will leave you in illegal possession of your own guns and you wont be able to buy ammo. In the days when variations took 48 hours and were typed on the current ticket it was necessary to enclose it, but nowadays it takes weeks if not longer and you are issued with a brand new ticket even in the case of a variation anyhow. If you feel obliged to comply then you can send them a photocopy and tell them they can have your original when you receive the new one. Sorted.

[Bewsher500]

I can't do it, went my local RFD and was told I can't send it without my licence

 

then your RFD is wrong

 

nothing to stop you selling a rifle with YOUR FAC at the Police station

you write on their FAC when selling

 

variations and selling are two diffferent issues

 

I NEVER send the FAC in with the variation.

they do not need it, it is a digital version sitting on their system

simply get them to print the new one and relinquish the old one ONLY when you have checked the new one is correct.

 

 

Selling is a simple process

you check buyer has authority and transfer

Your RFD is simply processing this and takes the rifle onto his register, ships to another RFD who takes it onto their register, they then transfer to the buyer who has authority

 

you notify your FLO of the sale

 

if your RFD is worried you have legal authority to own or hold that rifle and wants the FAC for that purpose he can simply check with the FLO....or read the photocopy!

he is not doing you any favours there

[welshwarrior]

Just had a reply from the NGO. There is no legal requirement to enclose either your FAC/SGC for either a variation nor renewal despite what licensing says. To do so will leave you in illegal possession of your own guns and you wont be able to buy ammo. In the days when variations took 48 hours and were typed on the current ticket it was necessary to enclose it, but nowadays it takes weeks if not longer and you are issued with a brand new ticket even in the case of a variation anyhow. If you feel obliged to comply then you can send them a photocopy and tell them they can have your original when you receive the new one. Sorted.

Took 48 hour after staff received mine, only took longer when they wanted proof of stalking. Personal I include a more saying I'll return the current one when they have my new FAC printed.

 

Otherwise you would have 2 tickets in my case recently one with slots for 222, 17 HMR and another with 243 and HMR I could have bought 2 extra rifles so I can see why the FEO want it back.

Edited September 22, 2014 by welshwarrior

[Scully]

Took 48 hour after staff received mine, only took longer when they wanted proof of stalking. Personal I include a more saying I'll return the current one when they have my new FAC printed.

 

Otherwise you would have 2 tickets in my case recently one with slots for 222, 17 HMR and another with 243 and HMR I could have bought 2 extra rifles so I can see why the FEO want it back.

But only one ticket would be valid. The corner should be cut off any invalid license aka invalid passport license. I have seen all my old tickets, and all had corner cut off. Licensing don't need any of your tickets for any purpose, valid or otherwise.

[welshwarrior]

But only one ticket would be valid. The corner should be cut off any invalid license aka invalid passport license. I have seen all my old tickets, and all had corner cut off. Licensing don't need any of your tickets for any purpose, valid or otherwise.

No they don't but what's to say you'll cut the corner off.

[Scully]

No they don't but what's to say you'll cut the corner off.

Fair point, but because we are law abiding firearms owners we would wouldn't we? But whether the corner is cut off or not, the 'start' date on your new license renders your old one obsolete and invalid, and you would be in illegal possession of any guns bought on your invalid license which weren't on your valid one, and your RFD would be in deep doodoo for not checking the expiry date on your invalid one.

[delburt0]

It's been so long since I had a variation I may be wrong, but I thought I'd received a complete new certificate last time I varied. My apologies for giving duff info' .

+1 you get a new cert back, not typed on your old one.