what scope

[Dougy]

Dougy have the same scope awesome for foxing and I have bodged the archer fittings to make that fit on it at night. High seat wise for longer shots it does get wound up and indeed under the lamp as well. I can shoot straight through dusk into dark now which it is surprising just how many you shoot just after you can't see without nv. I shoot with a mate with an 8x56 and regularly he will pass on the longer shots even though using Kents logic if he can hit a dinner plate at 50 yards with no sights then he should be fine........

Ive been contemplating swapping scopes on my sako and putting a leupold on just because of NV not being compatible. What's your fitment like, is it bodgeable with a few nick nacks in the shed, Any chance of a picture.

[al4x]

I'll dig one out but basically it involves cutting the bayonet fitting so that it mounts over the Ir controls. You then need to pad over the eyepiece ring to make it sit level. It works well but with the scope coatings it's useless with the firefly but with a nm800 good to 200 yards. It's not pretty but I have shot a lot of foxes with it like it. As a lot of mine is high seats it means I can use the z6 up to last light and just put the archer on. Saves me needing two rifles as well

[kent]

Dougy have the same scope awesome for foxing and I have bodged the archer fittings to make that fit on it at night. High seat wise for longer shots it does get wound up and indeed under the lamp as well. I can shoot straight through dusk into dark now which it is surprising just how many you shoot just after you can't see without nv. I shoot with a mate with an 8x56 and regularly he will pass on the longer shots even though using Kents logic if he can hit a dinner plate at 50 yards with no sights then he should be fine........

 

No only if you eat very small dinners on 2" plates (the requirement for an assured clean DRT kill on a fox) that I already stated in this thread. The biggest factor in shooting foxes at fair range at night is hence wind but also accurate rangefinding and the thread was about a scope for foxing which to 99% of us means using a lamp at night.

 

200 yards with a .243 win requires a 10mph FV wind correction of 3-5" depending on chosen bullet a 5mph shift unseen or a 1/4 to full angle value mistake perhaps will take you right off the money, so who is looking for dinner plate prayer shots ? Not me ! keeping a 2" first shot placement at 200 yards is actually beyond mostly all regular rifle shooters and standing even off sticks at night beyond all but the very,very best at night. Yep that logic, honesty and knowing that no matter how much you invest in kit to impress your friends and likely upset the bank manager its is still down to the Nut behind the butt to get the job done and "know his honest limitations"

[al4x]

Off the top of a pickup or decent high seat I have to say 200 yards isn't hard with the ammo I use point and bang. If it's windy then a slight allowance is in real life all that is needed as the range isn't extreme. The gear just helps to be confident about your quarry to the 100% level. Whether it be a deer lying in stubble, muntjac on the edge of a cover crop or less importantly cat. The better your optics the easier these are to be certain of rather than spending ages squeaking muntjac. Some of us get the job done others just pontificate on theory

[Dougy]

The better your optics the easier these are to be certain of rather than spending ages squeaking muntjac. Some of us get the job done others just pontificate on theory

That made me laugh, cus that's what I was doing Friday night for about 10 minute's. Me a muppet lol. Shot a fox in the corner of a field with a wood behind, and waited a while before moving, just in case it had a mate in tow. Clocked a pair of eye's behind the hedge line a yard in front of the wood, squeaks were plentiful and I must say bloody good. Then out pops a munty buck with a leupold cross hair on it's chest. No I didn't shoot, just said to myself "you lucky thing"

 

Theory is important but afraid doesn't get the job done. I can just see the game keepers face when you turn up with spread sheets, ballistic charts and a load of figures. Lol

Edited November 2, 2014 by Dougy

[kent]

Those figures were off the top of my head, I was doing this a long while back and have made my mistakes. If you understood what I was saying you wouldn't use "windy" in that statement as a 5mph call is the limit of the best of us at night that's 1 1/2" (nearly a full two inches on wind alone) or 2 1/2" depending on bullet choice. The adverts don't tell you this though. Go outside with a windmeter one day and check out what 5mph feels like on your face (it aint much)

[kent]

Off the top of a pickup or decent high seat I have to say 200 yards isn't hard with the ammo I use point and bang. If it's windy then a slight allowance is in real life all that is needed as the range isn't extreme. The gear just helps to be confident about your quarry to the 100% level. Whether it be a deer lying in stubble, muntjac on the edge of a cover crop or less importantly cat. The better your optics the easier these are to be certain of rather than spending ages squeaking muntjac. Some of us get the job done others just pontificate on theory

 

Yeah, ID ing quarry through a scope we have been there before

[al4x]

That made me laugh, cus that's what I was doing Friday night for about 10 minute's. Me a muppet lol. Shot a fox in the corner of a field with a wood behind, and waited a while before moving, just in case it had a mate in tow. Clocked a pair of eye's behind the hedge line a yard in front of the wood, squeaks were plentiful and I must say bloody good. Then out pops a munty buck with a leupold cross hair on it's chest. No I didn't shoot, just said to myself "you lucky thing"

 

Theory is important but afraid doesn't get the job done. I can just see the game keepers face when you turn up with spread sheets, ballistic charts and a load of figures. Lol

It's the amount of time you spend doing it though lol stick a 6x42 on and look at a munty at 200 yards and you will never tell the difference. At least fallow the eyes are too wide apart to mistake, munty with a white chest and looking every time you squeak is very hard to tell till they leave cover

[Alycidon]

Ought to have a poll as to how many serious foxers use a 6x 42 it's sure not many as it's a major handicap under the lamp. At that budget I'd be looking second hand it's not going to get you German glass of anything decent so you are better off going MTC etc

 

 

I use variables but they are almost always set a 7x when shooting under a lamp. Field of view is far more important. ie finding it in the scope and getting a half decent view of it and watching the impact. I have taken foxes to 300 yards under a lamp at 7x, that is a hell of a long way at night.

 

My scope of choice on shorter range 17AH and 22LR is a 3x9x36 Ziess. I would have no issues at all using one on my fox rifles, the light gathering is astounding, better than 50mm Swaro and NSX on my other rifles.

A

[kent]

It's the amount of time you spend doing it though lol stick a 6x42 on and look at a munty at 200 yards and you will never tell the difference. At least fallow the eyes are too wide apart to mistake, munty with a white chest and looking every time you squeak is very hard to tell till they leave cover

 

Incredible I think this must be a wind up now we are IDing quarry by their eyes Last time this was reported a guy watching badgers took a .223 to the chest as apparently his NV reflected similar to a fox!

 

To the Novices out there, no full profile ID without putting a scope on it then its not a takeable shot. A few missed opportunities a year are nothing viewed against a single accident . Never ever shoot on eye shine even if you have a perfect backstop / backdrop.

 

One might want to aquaint themselves with the actual real accidents that have occurred around the world. Hanging white knickers on the washing line (shot as a whitetail deer) Lab shot (as a deer?) Badger watcher (as above) guy carrying out a deer on his back (shot as a live deer). there are more , many more and all the same "guy looking through a scope"

 

I cant always tell a cat or a badger a pet terrier from a fox from its eye shine and there was an incident a while back were a farmer took a guys cash for foxing rights and ended up with three dead lambs ID was eyeshine and height / size.

 

In the daylight its easy to be fooled ( I once saw what I was convinced was a toy panda stuck in a fence) watched it all morning after a roe buck, thinking what the heck? Had to get up to it and see close up hands on before I left for breakfast and no it was actually the buck I was looking for! My eyes are fine but sometimes the link between them and my brain needs work like the rest of us I mean what was a toy panda doing in a fence out in the middle of nowhere was all I could think!

In the night? don't even go there NV or not

[kent]

 

 

I use variables but they are almost always set a 7x when shooting under a lamp. Field of view is far more important. ie finding it in the scope and getting a half decent view of it and watching the impact. I have taken foxes to 300 yards under a lamp at 7x, that is a hell of a long way at night.

 

My scope of choice on shorter range 17AH and 22LR is a 3x9x36 Ziess. I would have no issues at all using one on my fox rifles, the light gathering is astounding, better than 50mm Swaro and NSX on my other rifles.

A

 

 

A lot of respect for that, based 100% on personal experience in the field I should say and I don't even know you personally. I feel we have been loosing our way in recent times on the scope front.

 

7/300 which I agree is a heck of a long way at night= 42 yards at nil mag, yep I can see a fox clear enough stood 42 yards away from it

[al4x]

 

Incredible I think this must be a wind up now we are IDing quarry by their eyes Last time this was reported a guy watching badgers took a .223 to the chest as apparently his NV reflected similar to a fox!

 

To the Novices out there, no full profile ID without putting a scope on it then its not a takeable shot. A few missed opportunities a year are nothing viewed against a single accident . Never ever shoot on eye shine even if you have a perfect backstop / backdrop.

 

One might want to aquaint themselves with the actual real accidents that have occurred around the world. Hanging white knickers on the washing line (shot as a whitetail deer) Lab shot (as a deer?) Badger watcher (as above) guy carrying out a deer on his back (shot as a live deer). there are more , many more and all the same "guy looking through a scope"

 

I cant always tell a cat or a badger a pet terrier from a fox from its eye shine and there was an incident a while back were a farmer took a guys cash for foxing rights and ended up with three dead lambs ID was eyeshine and height / size.

 

In the daylight its easy to be fooled ( I once saw what I was convinced was a toy panda stuck in a fence) watched it all morning after a roe buck, thinking what the heck? Had to get up to it and see close up hands on before I left for breakfast and no it was actually the buck I was looking for! My eyes are fine but sometimes the link between them and my brain needs work like the rest of us I mean what was a toy panda doing in a fence out in the middle of nowhere was all I could think!

In the night? don't even go there NV or not

You can twist anything who even said that this was all through a scope with a bullet loaded? Most fallow are easy to spot due to eye spacing under a red filter even at distance with the naked eye, muntjac far harder but no where did I suggest shooting at eyes just that they were the first clue you got. The better the optics the easier it is to see the profile, and be 100% though you just tend to know its a fox when you've been doing it long enough from the first glance. It's when you have to think is it that it usually isn't. Round here if you use binoculars then faff about with a rifle you would shoot nothing at night, safety is number 1 but I am pretty certain before I look down a scope as we do areas with lots of people and dogs about.

Edited November 3, 2014 by al4x

[kent]

You can twist anything who even said that this was all through a scope with a bullet loaded? Most fallow are easy to spot due to eye spacing under a red filter even at distance with the naked eye, muntjac far harder but no where did I suggest shooting at eyes just that they were the first clue you got. The better the optics the easier it is to see the profile, and be 100% though you just tend to know its a fox when you've been doing it long enough from the first glance. It's when you have to think is it that it usually isn't. Round here if you use binoculars then faff about with a rifle you would shoot nothing at night, safety is number 1 but I am pretty certain before I look down a scope as we do areas with lots of people and dogs about.

 

Stop digging " I didn't know it was actually loaded your honour" there is a statement that must have been said a few times in the dock, have you not read a fathers advice?. No although it was a condition for grant of a night licence for deer Scotland (times change now I believe) to have a spotter with binos I agree you don't need them foxing if you keep the ranges sensible and honest at night and you can tell good enough with the naked eye where its a safe shot and 100% your intended quarry ( I have used them on difficult nights taking a guest rifle out) but no not essential if you keep it sensible range for conditions. This brings us full circle so its time to end before boredom sets in

[Dougy]

looking for a good scope for about £300 quid to put on a 233. for foxing what do you recommend or use your self ?

Andrew,

As you see opinions vary quite considerably, take out from them what you wish. If you're soul intention is Foxing using lamp, then my experience is that the scope choice won't matter too much,. But don't expect high performance light transmission you get in the top brand's. Allot of the lower end scopes will struggle in lowlight compared with less expensive scopes..

I was happy for ages with a leupold VX1 3-9×40 £200

 

Oh! And you will not reach out to 500yds with a spear unless your "Superman"

Edited November 3, 2014 by Dougy

[al4x]

Alex you use a different scope to Kent so you must be young and wrong.

 

Still waiting for my answer too😭

The difference being I tend to use it, rather too much if you listen to my missus.........

[Alycidon]

 

 

A lot of respect for that, based 100% on personal experience in the field I should say and I don't even know you personally. I feel we have been loosing our way in recent times on the scope front.

 

 

 

 

Agreed, load of 'makers' and mostly imported from third world countries with quality varying from average to very poor..

 

Optics, always buy the very best you can afford, when to get to about 50 your eyesight starts to get worse, then by god you need all the help you can get, take it from someone who has been there. Much better to buy a fixed power scope from Ziess, S&B. Swaro or Pecar than a high power variable from a lower quality supplier. You only see the difference in low light, no good what so ever having a look through one at a show in good light.

 

A few years ago I organised a test with a friend who also posts here, we looked at a dark boarded barn at about 120 yards in failing light late one summers evening.

 

Scopes on test were: Ziess Dia Vari C 3x9x36. Swaro PVS 6x24x50, Luepold VX3 4 x 14 x 40, NXS 5.5 x 22 x50, and a couple of high power 56mm american scopes from my friend. No electronic rets were used, it was simply a test of when you could still take a precise shot, all mags were set at 7X.

 

First out was the Luepold ( light plex ret)_ which is a nice scope in good light. Over the next 15 minutes or so all the rest dropped out except one. That scope gave around 20-25 minutes extra shooting time over the VX3.

 

That scope was the little Ziess, smallest lens, only an inch tube yet by far the best light transmission. In fairness its Duplex reticule is better than small dots the the NSX and the American scopes had for extreme low light work.

 

I have heard it said that the new generations of 7x50 fixed power from S&B and Ziess are better performers than my late 80s Ziess's.

 

A

Edited November 3, 2014 by Alycidon

[joe soapy]

Parallax error is increased by a larger objective and reduced while using a smaller objective. The actual Science bit I am unsure about in terms of explanation but its something to do with the centre to diameter curve. As we all should know keeping your eye dead. central to any size of scope can negate parallax error- correct and consistent head position being of prime importance if you don't have time to move your head around to dial it out, watching all the time for aim point movement (Something I have never seen done under field conditions or lamping of foxes let alone ever done), correction there (something I have seen few shooters do even on the range, a mistake IMO) Laid up or from a hide shooting over long range yes you can mess, but shooting off hand, from sticks or off a truck forget it dial down use a lower mag estimate range and get the thing shot .

 

Been trying to say foe a while now, easier to shoot accurate with smaller optics, nobody will believe it though. the hype is all powerfull

[joe soapy]

been shoo

 

Care to quantify that and give reasons why and in terms of what scenarios it applies, just hunting?

 

been shooting for nearly 50 years with centerfire now , rabbits, birds and foxes, I know looking back things look better,

but my pratice target back then was a fag paper at 100 yds and would expect to hit it. fifle was a tikka 12/222 with a 4x20 nikko sterling scope.

As always , i wanted a better mousetrap, actually a bigger field of view to enable the shotgun barrel to be used.

Over time have moved on through various rifles and scopes including a 6x40 meopta, never finding that combination since that gave me the confidence

that 4x20 gave me.. Have a hmr now and its great for what i do, but would spend on a scope that would return that feeling of certainty that old outfit had.

I have shot bigger glass enough to convince myself that bigger is not better for me. Dont find light gathering to be such an issue, its either light enough to shoot or else use a lamp. with a lamp even the smallest scopes surfice although LED has changed this a bit.

Would love to see you do a 200 yd test between a 24mm scope and a 50 mm scope, both by day and under the lamp

[joe soapy]

Yes it would be interesting but i dont think anyone would pay for it as any suitable scopes would very likely be very incomparable for other reasons. A few months ago i had a pair of Meopta R2's in 1-6 and 2.5-15 if memory serves but the objectives were 24 and 56 off the top of my head. One was really driven game, the other mixed purposes but the reticles were different. It might have been interesting though as i found both excellent in their own field, good value and both were 30 mm tubes. Rifle actions, tube saddles, rings bases and cheekpieces these days also mean both would have been identically positioned too.

So how does a normal shooter find the holy grail on his own without buying a shedload of scopes. Currently i am sort of lusting after a C more with simple duplex and turrets

but with out the ir.. cant really go by other people because they always try to justify what they have untill after they have sold it!!

[joe soapy]

A firm offered to send one under the distance regs, but feel it would be unfair to mount and use , and send back if not happy

[joe soapy]

I would if they had a demo one, but you cant guarantee to not to mark it..

just want a "see it shoot it " scope with a turret to do the occasional 200 yd shot.

[joe soapy]

£269 1-10 x 24 for illuminated and turrets

shame they put the ugly ill turret on the eyepiece.

Looked at the R2, but cant quite see 4 times the value

[joe soapy]

part of it, will have another look..

have lost it, can you put a link up

Edited November 5, 2014 by joe soapy

[wymberley]

On the other hand if you're not shooting into the next county, you could try a Leapers Accushot 4-16x56 and buy a couple of bucket fulls of ammo with the dosh you've got left over.

[joe soapy]

been there with hi mag big lenses and had the dissapointment