Monitoring Terrorists v individual rights to privacy

[deadeye18]

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yeah probably.good picture that is.

[deadeye18]

God knows what happened with that quote ↑ !! Everytime i hear that phrase "If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear" i cant help thinking this. I dont fear anything,and ive got nothing to hide,so stop snooping keep your nose out!

Edited January 14, 2015 by deadeye18

[BattleFieldRelics]

Whatever they do they will NEVER stop a terrorist attack happening.

 

If anything we need to be able to defend ourselves should we be in that supermarket or wherever at the time. Its time the government gave sane law abiding citizens some responsibility for their own lives. Including the choice to carry.

[TriBsa]

Whatever they do they will NEVER stop a terrorist attack happening.

 

If anything we need to be able to defend ourselves should we be in that supermarket or wherever at the time. Its time the government gave sane law abiding citizens some responsibility for their own lives. Including the choice to carry.

 

Do all your shopping on Fridays when you know who will be praying in the you know what.

[deadeye18]

 

Do all your shopping on Fridays when you know who will be praying in the you know what.

or learn to throw a tin of beans like mick dundee did in crocodile dundee!!

[TriBsa]

or learn to throw a tin of beans like mick dundee did in crocodile dundee!!

 

Or hide behind a fatty in the cake aisle.

[Fisherman Mike]

And he told you?

Yes... he told me "you wouldn't believe what we can do and already do"

[deadeye18]

Yes... he told me "you wouldn't believe what we can do and already do"

and these are the people trusted with "secret" information.doomed to fail me thinks.

[Fisherman Mike]

Whatever they do they will NEVER stop a terrorist attack happening.

 

If anything we need to be able to defend ourselves should we be in that supermarket or wherever at the time. Its time the government gave sane law abiding citizens some responsibility for their own lives. Including the choice to carry.

Thankfully this is Britain not America and it will never happen.... I wouldn't want a bunch of vigilantes running around armed.... Imagine what would happen if a road rage confrontation escalated...or West Ham fans bumped into a rival group from Milwall in Bethnall High Street...then you would have all the drug crazed smackheads and psychopaths who currently use knives...

 

There are a few sane law abiding citizens who shouldn't have shotgun and firearm licences already in my opinion.

 

This is the biggest Knee jerk reaction since the sugar shortage rumours in 1974 when everyone emptied the supermarkets of sugar.....result ? it produced a sugar shortage.

[TriBsa]

This is the biggest Knee jerk reaction since the sugar shortage rumours in 1974 when everyone emptied the supermarkets of sugar.....result ? it produced a sugar shortage.

 

So what was the body count in the sugar shortage?

[overandunder2012]

This comes up every time a terrorist sneezes - the security services and the Home Office have been after extended powers for years.

What the powers actually mean is the equivalent of opening all your postal mail for checking before it it's delivered.

The talking heads spout the usual "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" non-sequitur, and imply, or even state explicitly, that anyone opposing the extension of monitoring is a terrorist sympathizer.

They forget to mention that anyone with reasonable knowledge would be able to circumvent the surveillance anyway - the dark web exists, despite all efforts to the contrary - but function creep would soon mean council officials monitoring your email to check on benefit entitlement, or school eligibility.

Sorry guys, but civil liberties are hard won, and once relinquished, are almost impossible to get back.

Mr Franklin's quote is most apposite here: "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties in exchange for security, will end up with neither".

spot on if the government have anything to do with it its bound to be abused in one way or another, no i suggest they just stop letting terrorists come home instead, that would be more effective.

[keg]

Lets say they pass this law which allows some governing body access our email, letters or whatever else has been written above; I for one get anything between 50 and 100 emails a day, do you really think there will ever be the manpower for some self pleasuring geek to be sitting there reading my emails whilst I confess my undying love for the hairy bloke next door?

 

These things will be automated computer programs to pick up on words/phrases which would set an alarm to look deeper. Yes it will extend beyond catching terrorists, but if it manages to take the law to these scumbags, manages to break up a paedophile ring or stops someone doing benefit fraud then I'm all for it.

Allegedly already in use at RAF Menwith Hill near me. It's a huge US listening station and is rumoured to monitor a large percentage of phone & e-mail traffic. The CND crowd are now saying it's all about accountability of US bases now the cold war is over...

I have a friend who works for GCHQ in Cheltenham....

 

You wouldn't believe what they can do already and do !

I do I do! See my post above, i believe that both the US & UK govts share their "product"

Edited January 14, 2015 by keg

[keg]

and these are the people trusted with "secret" information.doomed to fail me thinks.

Indeed, look at Mr Assange & Wikileaks.

[Zapp]

Whatever they do they will NEVER stop a terrorist attack happening.

 

 

Intelligence-led operations have resulted in lots of attack plots being disrupted in this country.

[Cosd]

Intelligence-led operations have resulted in lots of attack plots being disrupted in this country.

 

Totally agree!!

 

I don't think anyone pro this idea has said this is going to put an end to this war, but it will add another weapon to our armour against terrorism.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Cosd

[Scully]

Thankfully this is Britain not America and it will never happen.... I wouldn't want a bunch of vigilantes running around armed.... Imagine what would happen if a road rage confrontation escalated...or West Ham fans bumped into a rival group from Milwall in Bethnall High Street...then you would have all the drug crazed smackheads and psychopaths who currently use knives...

 

There are a few sane law abiding citizens who shouldn't have shotgun and firearm licences already in my opinion.

 

This is the biggest Knee jerk reaction since the sugar shortage rumours in 1974 when everyone emptied the supermarkets of sugar.....result ? it produced a sugar shortage.

This is simply typical of the type of gross exaggeration generated in response to suggestions of arming law abiding people, but to come from someone whom I'm assuming knows what applying for a certificate entails, just beggars belief. I agree, it aint going to happen, despite the fact the police can't even protect themselves let alone anyone else, but who, in their right mind is ever going to suggest arming football hooligans, drug crazed smack heads and psychopaths? Seriously, get a grip FM.

[Scully]

Intelligence-led operations have resulted in lots of attack plots being disrupted in this country.

I don't doubt this at all Zapp, so is there really a need for further intrusion then? How far do we go? Like I said, those responsible for the shootings in France were already well known and on the radar; it didn't prevent them from doing what they did though.

If we go down this route then it's an insult to the memories of all those who fought and died in the war, in my opinion. If we're forced to cower in fear in cupboards under sinks then they've won as far as I'm concerned.

The best advice our authorities can come up with is run away and hide and call the police. I'm assuming this is so we can let them know where we are to make it easier for them to locate and identify our bodies later.

[welshwizard]

I agree 100 per cent with this. firearms, sorry I mean big bad nasty weapons that seem to fire by themselves will also be on the radar. Active government assassination squads with intelligence might be one way to tackle the current threats. But alas we are talking about the government, and how many would vote that they get it right?

me too , all the governing bodies and branches of the law DO NOT like members of the public having firearms and the more powers they get the more we are likely to come under scrutiny to see what else they can impose on us or worse still take away from us as they have previously .

[Zapp]

I don't doubt this at all Zapp, so is there really a need for further intrusion then?

In short, I dont know. My comment was more of a direct response to the assertion that the security services would never be able to stop an attack rather than a statement in support of greater powers.

[deadeye18]

me too , all the governing bodies and branches of the law DO NOT like members of the public having firearms and the more powers they get the more we are likely to come under scrutiny to see what else they can impose on us or worse still take away from us as they have previously .

+1 thats bang on

[TriBsa]

Is some of this to do with the fact that whilst GCHQ and M15 currently gain information through surveilance of emails and the like, it is not legally obtained and therefore is not submissable in court to obtain convictions?

[Zapp]

Is some of this to do with the fact that whilst GCHQ and M15 currently gain information through surveilance of emails and the like, it is not legally obtained and therefore is not submissable in court to obtain convictions?

No, it is an attempt to force internet service providers to retain records of internet useage so that they can be accessed retrospectively. Any access to the data would have to be applied for under warrant and be compliant with RIPA etc.

[aris]

No, it is an attempt to force internet service providers to retain records of internet useage so that they can be accessed retrospectively. Any access to the data would have to be applied for under warrant and be compliant with RIPA etc.

 

Ah yes RIPA - the law which came about to catch terrorists and hard core criminals....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/7369543.stm

 

There is no doubt in my mind that any more intrusion on our private lives will be subject to 'mission creep' into other areas.

[aris]

Quite frankly Cameron's comments deserve a huge facepalm. I would expect someone like him to at least consult either someone who understands technology before opening his gob.

 

This article explains it quite succinctly

 

http://boingboing.net/2015/01/13/what-david-cameron-just-propos.html

[Imperfection]

Im amazed the words 'identity' and 'card' havent been uttered by the government!