gunsmoke Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) OK lets get things straight. BASC have no say on the biggest committee [LAG] that could recommend a total lead ban for shooting. The voice of shooting has NO VOICE! BASC set up the web site. BASC run the web site. BASC's Dr John Harradine was on the risk assessment group of the LAG BASC run the Secretariat by Matt EIlis BASC man was made chairman of the LAG in 2010 but when he come out as anti lead he now has nothing to do with BASC I think I have that right. BUT BASC have no member on the main LAG committee. BASC have withdrawn their support for the LAG but are the still running the Web Site and doing the minutes? BASC would know everything that was going on, on the LAG with Matt Ellis doing the minutes. Your not going to tell me that Matt working for BASC would not have reported back to BASC staff what was going on, on the LAG. SO BASC "the voice of shooting" the largest shooting organisation have no say and is just the tea boy. Edited June 3, 2015 by gunsmoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Lol. All that money folk handed over for years! Its just lined other pockets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I have no idea what's going on to be honest. I just find it frustratingly annoying bordering on hilarious that we're all simply kept in the dark over this. Are there no BASC or CA members on here who can contact their organisation to find out what the hell is going on? The outcome of this matter could potentially have the biggest effect on shooters and their sport since I don't know when, but the amount of feedback from those who are supposed to represent them is alarmingly silent. Has the 'voice of shooting' got laryngitis.......again? I find this amazing, I really do. I've asked my organisation but as they were refused a place on the LAG their feedback is only based on assumptions. My only fear about all this is that there is a monumental **** covering exercise going on behind the scenes, and until that is secured none of us are going to be privy to owt. I have emailed the Telegraph and made them aware of exactly what is going regarding the lead shot issue and the LAG, in the hope we can get this out into the open, and will let everyone know the outcome, assuming the Telegraph is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I shall write to BASC and the GWCT this morning and see what comes back. I rather suspect it will be holding statements as there is most likely far too much uncertainty for anybody to say anything definitive. I shall report back in due course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 but the amount of feedback from those who are supposed to represent them is alarmingly silent. All secret squirrel cloak & dagger stuff, ......PLAN B will emerge soon.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 ......PLAN B will emerge soon.. As long as he doesn't sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 but the amount of feedback from those who are supposed to represent them is alarmingly silent. Should it be the case and we can only hope that it is, a brief statement jointly made by the shooting organisations involved to the effect that, "Negotiations are in hand so please bear with us and an announcement will be made as soon as is possible." would go a long way to calm the situation. All secret squirrel cloak & dagger stuff, ......PLAN B will emerge soon.. On Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Any news David, since you're online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 How did BASC end up running the Secritariat given the original LAG Terms of Reference? Secretariat Support Defra will provide the secretariat support to the Group (but not sub-groups) in the form of minute taking and arranging meetings/rooms. Defra/FSA will provide rooms for meetings for the Group. Whilst the need for face to face meetings is recognised, the use of ‘green alternatives’ such as e-mail, tele/video conferencing are to be encouraged. The Group will define its own operating principles within these terms of reference. http://www.leadammunitiongroup.co.uk/reference.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Gunsmoke, I think you may have but I can't find it, but have you posted on here (PW as a whole not just this thread) recently that a submission of yours to the LAG was rejected because it was not peer reviewed? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 How did BASC end up running the Secritariat given the original LAG Terms of Reference? Secretariat Support Defra will provide the secretariat support to the Group (but not sub-groups) in the form of minute taking and arranging meetings/rooms. Defra/FSA will provide rooms for meetings for the Group. Whilst the need for face to face meetings is recognised, the use of ‘green alternatives’ such as e-mail, tele/video conferencing are to be encouraged. The Group will define its own operating principles within these terms of reference. http://www.leadammunitiongroup.co.uk/reference.html I can help you out there. I spoke to Tim in the Bristol office, he was on the LAG at the start, he informed me that Defra would run the secritarait to set the group up then the LAG would take on the role itself. It was planned that way. I can not say why BASC are running the secretariat, you would have to ask BASC or LAG. I would think that in the same way BASC send out the CLA survey forms to shoots for the compliance report, it would look better that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 In my opinion I can see a lead ban coming in place for the uk in there near future wich will kill the sub gauges of the likes of .410 and I can see gun owner ship for the average guy in this country with in the next 20 years to be taken away from us or be choke holed by to many restrictions and rules as the mouths in suits that run our country are anti gun anti everyday person anti motorist the list go's on. Our country's history way of life with contry sports is near on deafs door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Swift and Harradine don't have to answer to the organisation or members of BASC any longer they have both retired....Matt Ellis is as far as I know still employed by BASC........... so it would interesting to hear his take on the LAG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Nothing to add over and above what we said last week - We remain committed to working with Defra/FSA to ensure that an entirely evidence based approach is followed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 We remain committed to working with Defra/FSA to ensure that an entirely evidence based approach is followed By this are we to then believe that the LAG is still alive and kicking and its recommendations will be forwarded to DEFRA and the FSA as was intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Gunsmoke, I think you may have but I can't find it, but have you posted on here (PW as a whole not just this thread) recently that a submission of yours to the LAG was rejected because it was not peer reviewed? Cheers Finally found it. Edited June 5, 2015 by wymberley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 By this are we to then believe that the LAG is still alive and kicking and its recommendations will be forwarded to DEFRA and the FSA as was intended? I think not. I'm assuming that David's "we" is the BASC. BASC has no place on the LAG so can have no idea what that committee will do next. I would read David's post that BASC has side stepped the LAG and is conversing directly with Defra and FSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I think not. I'm assuming that David's "we" is the BASC. BASC has no place on the LAG so can have no idea what that committee will do next. I would read David's post that BASC has side stepped the LAG and is conversing directly with Defra and FSA. Fair points, though I'd be more reassured to discover that the LAG has dissolved and is no more. I seem to recall it was BASC which compiled and submitted the 'compliance' report? I still fail to see how any organisation charged with representation of shooting interests can be involved in any part of an inquiry into the effects of lead shot on the environment, its wildlife and human health and still be deemed impartial, let alone qualified, anymore than the RSPB could be. I find the entire suggestion hysterically absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes, the 'we' is BASC The compliance report, oft referred to on here, was a survey of BASC member knowledge, understanding and application of the restrictions on lead shot, the CLA did a similar survey as I recall of their members. As you know, we, and all the other organisations stand as one on the key issue that we must be aware of, understand and comply with the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes, the 'we' is BASC The compliance report, oft referred to on here, was a survey of BASC member knowledge, understanding and application of the restrictions on lead shot, the CLA did a similar survey as I recall of their members. As you know, we, and all the other organisations stand as one on the key issue that we must be aware of, understand and comply with the law Fair enough; my apologies. Who compiled and what was the name of the report which allegedly found that a high %tage of dead ducks in game dealers contained lead shot? The non-compliance report? It was this report to which I was referring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I would think if you ask questions and you can not get an answer from a democratic organisation like BASC ask the elected members. Oh but I would not know who my local council member is. I could find contacts for local District Councillors or County Councillors but after BASC election never hear who they are or where they are email addresses at the mill that are generic are not what I require. This is who should answer questions if you feel staff are not giving you the right answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes, the 'we' is BASC The compliance report, oft referred to on here, was a survey of BASC member knowledge, understanding and application of the restrictions on lead shot, the CLA did a similar survey as I recall of their members. As you know, we, and all the other organisations stand as one on the key issue that we must be aware of, understand and comply with the law I think you will find that the CLA survey was managed by the BASC and WWT on the compliance steering group, I attach extracts for the Steering Group minutes which I got from a FOI request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I still fail to see how any organisation charged with representation of shooting interests can be involved in any part of an inquiry into the effects of lead shot on the environment, its wildlife and human health and still be deemed impartial, let alone qualified, anymore than the RSPB could be. I find the entire suggestion hysterically absurd. Spot on, Scully. Edited June 5, 2015 by wymberley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I would think if you ask questions and you can not get an answer from a democratic organisation like BASC ask the elected members. Oh but I would not know who my local council member is. I could find contacts for local District Councillors or County Councillors but after BASC election never hear who they are or where they are email addresses at the mill that are generic are not what I require. This is who should answer questions if you feel staff are not giving you the right answer. In all fairness I wouldn't expect BASC to answer my questions anymore than I would the CA or the CPSA or the NRA (especially the NRA) as I'm a member of none of them. But I can still ask, and would still do so of any organisation which claimed to be even half of everything that BASC claims itself to be. Although David is BASC's representative on this forum I doubt he is mandated by BASC with keeping all and sundry abreast of developments within PW, after all, not all PWers are BASC members. There again, no ones questions appear to be getting answered to a satisfactory extent at the moment; there is very little in the way of conversation except to repeat and quote party policy, as it were. I have no doubt all will be revealed eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 When the lead ban do come and im sure it will eventually here in the uk we all should revolt and put our foot down but that wont happen as everyone here talks the talk but haven't got the back bone here is a simple one to prove how passionate we about our sport n lead shot a walked protest with un loaded broken open shotguns down to the house of parliament wont be braken any laws doing so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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