DeepThought Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Hi I'm looking for a cheap... perhaps almost disposable... wildfowling gun for use on the salt marsh.. After much research one of the options that stands out to me is the Winchester SXP Waterfowl. I wondered if anyone who owns one could tell me what the recoil is like with heavy steel loads like the 3.5 inch Mammouth cartridge? I want a gun that can kill geese effectively without having to use cartridges that cost £3 a bang but I'm dubious about what a 3.5 inch cartridge in a 7lb pump is going to do to my shoulder. I do appreciate that a soft shooting, hard hitting wildfowling gun for under £400 is a big ask, and maybe a little unrealistic, so I'm open to other ideas. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I use a Hatsan 3.5" cammo magnum,No recoil or other problems,My A & N side by side magnum shoots 1.5 Oz & I never notice any recoil (when I Hit) if you notice recoil is it shoulder or knuckle? If it,s the latter you can add a little rubber recoil pad to rear of trigger guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepThought Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well I haven't purchased anything yet but when I have felt tenderised by recoil it's always been in the shoulder. That said it has usually been as a result of 50 shots an hour on clays with cheap cartridges. If I managed to get 50 shots off on the foreshore I'd be writing books on wildfowling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I use an sxp on flighted pinks, with heavy 3.5" steel loads and the recoil.is barely even noticeable, definately not enough to batter you about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 66grams #BB is uncomfortable through a supernova. i can attest to that. guns dont kill, shells do.... i wouldnt go buying something just on the hype it may or may not recoil less/ more than a brand x product. shells recoil especially big ones. the sxp is available in 3" or 3.5". they only thing the 3.5" does better is shoot big faster 1.5oz steel loads. but you could argue yourself that 3" is probably more than enough. that limits you to 36g # steel loads. thats premium duck loads and maybe handloaded bigger shells.... as for the £3 / shot..... hull 3" steel - 32p a shot.... lylevale 3" 30p a shot gamebore mammoth 59p a shot impact 3.5" 6.00 per shot ! hevi 1.70p a shot the 3" may pay off if you want to pay for premium shells. i think if the guns cost the same go for the 3.5" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Feed it 3"shells, the difference in ability to cleanly kill your quarry is not significant enough to risk inducing flinches or blinking. I was crazy mad for 3 1/2" shells once then I found I could shoot better and kill ducks and even geese just as well with good 3" steel shells and get that second shot off a lot better and I shoot an gas op auto not a pump, I don't honestly have anygreat desire to shoot 3 1/2" steel though a lightweight pump. 3" Remington Nitro Steel in a 2 or similar home load or factory shell will kill any fowl within proper range if you keep the spread lading were it should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepThought Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thanks for the replies, seems I still have a lot to consider. I must admit I was only interested in the SXP because it's the most cost effective gun with a 3.5" chamber. If there are 3" shells out there that'll do a decent job of geese without breaking the bank then that opens up a world of budget semi auto, or even O/U options too. I'm treading a fine line between getting a gun of reasonable enough quality whilst also being mindful that it's going to be exposed to the salt marsh on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Would it be worth looking at buying cheap hatasn escorts as and when you see them and use 3" carts. When one is scrap take it for a RFD to dispose of and maybe keep stocks, forends and spacers etc for spares. Just keep an eye out all year and buy at the cheapest you can? Try to keep a spare in reserve ! ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 If I was buying a gun for wildfowling then it would be one with 3.5 " chamber , you then have that capability should you need it . Ni idea what the sxp would recoil like but no doubt you would feel it , but at the end of the day if you have even 4 or more shots at geese in a flight you will be a very lucky boy so its hardly going to beat you up too bad what ever you choose . Just save the3.5 " cartridges for when you need them. Would it be worth looking at buying cheap hatasn escorts as and when you see them and use 3" carts. When one is scrap take it for a RFD to dispose of and maybe keep stocks, forends and spacers etc for spares. Just keep an eye out all year and buy at the cheapest you can? Try to keep a spare in reserve ! ATB Matt A expensive way of going about things in the long run , I would say for another £150 you could get a S/H sx3 over the sxp which would be a much better gun for heavy loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepThought Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I suppose that raises the question, is the Escort any more disposable than the SX3? Maybe I'm being a bit too precious about the effect of wildfowling on a gun. What sort of lifespan can I expect to get out of a gun that has had a hard life on the marsh? I don't mind spending a little more if I'm going to see that investment turn into a notably longer lifespan rather than just ruining a better quality gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 There is no reason why a well cared for gun will not last you many years on the foreshore , the camo coatings on some guns help prevent rust , others like my versamax have special rust proof coatings under the blacking and other areas that could corrode. What ever you choose give it a good clean and wipe down with a oiled cloth as soon as you are able and you should have very few problems . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/309652-hatsan-arms-escort-magnum-ps-3-28-12-gauge/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't know how it stacks up against other pump actions, but I have an SXP and although I haven't put really heavy loads through it (- max 36gr), the recoil is comparable to my Browning Maxus - i.e. not much at all for the weight cartridge. Clearly recoil is a very personal and subjective thing, but as the SXP using the gas from the shot to bring the fore end back to enable a quicker cycle, I'd suggest that would be one reason why it feels nice to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I suppose that raises the question, is the Escort any more disposable than the SX3? Maybe I'm being a bit too precious about the effect of wildfowling on a gun. What sort of lifespan can I expect to get out of a gun that has had a hard life on the marsh? I don't mind spending a little more if I'm going to see that investment turn into a notably longer lifespan rather than just ruining a better quality gun. I'm reading this with interest. I really don't know what you think happens to a gun on the marsh, but looked after, a quality gun will last. I used to take my Silver pigeon IV game gun on the marsh and that was no problem. My second hand Beretta Xtrema has had around 6 seasons on the marsh and I now average around 50 flights a season. That gun has shown no visible signs of wear due to being used on the marsh. The idea of a 'disposable' wildfowling gun seems bizarre to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepThought Posted June 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'm reading this with interest. I really don't know what you think happens to a gun on the marsh, but looked after, a quality gun will last. I used to take my Silver pigeon IV game gun on the marsh and that was no problem. My second hand Beretta Xtrema has had around 6 seasons on the marsh and I now average around 50 flights a season. That gun has shown no visible signs of wear due to being used on the marsh. The idea of a 'disposable' wildfowling gun seems bizarre to me. I'm just going by what others have said before, I did acknowledge that I could be being a bit precious about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I do wonder if you`ve been overly influenced by the idea that the saltmarsh will utterly destroy your gun. If you keep it clean, and it matters not what it is, it will survive unblemished. What is more important is that, having got yourself into a position on the foreshore that a shot presents itself, that you can actually hit the quarry. Better to have a gun that you can shoot with because it is of reasonable quality,balance and handling, rather than that it is simply "cheap". The same applies on the foreshore as anywhere else - buy the best you can afford - and clean it thoroughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Field and stream did a great bit of ballistic research on 3" v 3 1/2" steel wildfowling loads (using some very top notch gear to measure things) it might still be found on -line?. It makes surprising reading and there is very, very little to be gained at the bird however Newtons law of equal and opposite forces still stands as regards the recoil. The 3 1/2" 12 was meant to mirror the ten - it doesn't! I have compared like loads of the same factory type and its like night and day between the two. I know a lot of very respected fowlers who have gone back to 3" from 3 1/2" even though they own a 3 1/2" gun. I do suspect the 3 1/2" was really produced to satisfy what old hand thought about the importance of total weight of shot required in a load for certain quarry. Forget this though as steel is lighter and the best steel is the fastest that will pattern well and less weight in steel gives more pellets than it did in lead at a faster velocity. Weight of load and the energy behind it effects recoil. Weight of gun can cushion this as can gas recoil systems in the semi auto. light gun, not semi auto and big load at good speed is gonna kick substantially more! Look at clay and game gun weights, magnums and sporters, big bore 10s and 8's against 12sand 20s. its perfectly possible to make a light gun that fires big heavy loads proof wise its just not sensible A frend bough a baikel wood stocked semi auto ( I think its his first semi after what might be coming on for 40-50 years of serious fowling). Reason was he has been seriously ill and lost a lot of weight and strength and couldn't currently handle the bigger goose loads in his s/s 3 1/2"- it worked and the gun wasn't dear to purchase. I know some fowlers who actually take out a best London gun (one has one with a cross over stock) and others who take out top end Italian and German guns, it just they look after them. I figure if you are talking SX3 or Berretta etc. then about £50 a year is what 10 years plus regular fowling should cost you in depreciation (about equivalent to 50 top shells) Just like a car though the first few years and the first few scratches will cost you the most. I have an SX3 I think its perhaps its sixth season coming and I go out a lot and treat it pretty rough (though maintain in well) No new parts so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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